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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
...one problem I've experienced with Troutspeys is poor hooksetting performance when employing sunkfly presentations at distances over 50'. This is "inherent" to the rod class because of how "light" the rod actions are in these rods - they don't have the "beef" to overcome the resistance of water when dealing with long lengths of flyline. Well, I think the problem has now been solved... I received a Monic .024 running line the day before yesterday, and took it out for about a 6 hour "session" on the river yesterday. Normally I don't comment on something based upon such a small amount of "test time", but I already feel quite confident in these observations:
- the "no stretch" increases hook setting performance
- also amplifies the "feel" for takes
- and provides for a more "instantaneous transfer" of energy from the rod to the line during the cast. This takes a little getting used to as one must actually back off a bit on the power applied to the casting stroke
- the .024 diameter is of a size/weight which significantly minimizes "running line drag" during casting - this is an especially important factor for Troutspeys
- it FLOATS... yea!
- it is supple, even in temperatures near freezing (no need to "pre-stretch)
- very trim, unobtrusive, and seemingly very solid connection loops
- a nice, highly visible color (bright orange)
- the least amount of tangling that I've ever experienced from a running line... only one incident in 6 hours of fishing! Actually I never had to pick out even one knot in the running line for the entire session - it did wrap around my rod tip one time to the point that I had to go back to shore to undo it - that was the only incident of the day.

The only other aspect of a running line that I consider important is durability/longevity, and this is something that will be determined with more time. I will comment on this aspect at a later date!

I was running this running line on a sweet, sweet 13' Meiser 5/6/7, a Skagit line with a 9' T-14 sinktip with a total weight of 480 grains, while casting 3 1/2" to 4" long weighted stringleeches. Even at a "swing-range" of 85' the "feel" was truly impressive! Caught a few trout from 16" to 5 pounds on this outfit, and one poor ole' river sucker that was apparently just "eyeballing" the fly - I "felt" something "going on", set the hook, and WHAMMO! stuck the unlucky fella right in the eye - now that's a sensitive setup!

I would like to add, that for the chuck-n-duckers that favor using a running line over mono, this
.024 no-stretch Monic running line should be fricken awesome!
 

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Where to source...

Monic running line. I am looking to test out some different running lines for my Guideline heads, and have had several line suggestions. However, I can't yet source a Monic running line in the UK. Where may I get some over the pond, and what diameters/strengths are available??

Many thanks in advance for continued support on the forum.

Mike
 

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How do you think the knot "memory" compares with slickshooter. I've shot a knot or two into my bottom guide and found that once it kinks it like to knot there again. So, the fish were cooperating with your line testing? How was the wind?
 

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Larger sizes

Any thoughts on how it would work for heavier applications, ie the .30 size for skagit setups? Would any of the above qualities be considered hinderances with the larger tackle and larger fish?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
...

Mike... I got mine from Scott Kozlowski, e-mail:

[email protected]


Trevor... don't know, haven't shot any knots into it yet!

Matt... I would go up in size to the larger diameter when using rods rated at 8 weight or higher just to increase the surface area for gripping it when casting. As far as strength, even the .024 is rated at a hefty 72#'s break strength - more than plenty!
 

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Ed,
Does it come prelooped? From your description it sounds like it? and have you used the heavier rated one - sounds like it comes in 0.030?

Best regards,
Rick
 

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How does it compare to Rio Powerflex Running line?

Ed: How does the Monic line compare to Rio Powerflex Running line?

You are much more experienced than I, but I haven't noticed any appreciable problems with setting the hook with trout speys. I have Bob's 12'6 4/5/6 for fish under 10lbs and his 13' 6/7MKS for fish from 10-20lbs. Early on I found that setting the hook with the tip of 9wt rods didn't work so have kind of used a saltwater set minus the strip strike (pulling the butt back & up and then raising the tip under pressure).

Question: Do you feel that a factory Skagit line has too much stretch to set the hook at 85' if you don't use the rod tip to set the hook?

Thanks for the topic.

Mark
 

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I used the .030 running line all last season on my Skagit set-ups - as Ive said before and as Ed has just said about the .024 - it is frickin awesome!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
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Mark,
I should have clarified - the hooksetting is fine when fishing "standard" trout fare. But, when using weighted flies measuring more than 3" in length, sunk down into the water column at depths of 3+ feet, on line lengths greater than 50', then a reduction in hooksetting performance occurs. I am in no way faulting the rods for this - quite frankly the same circumstance occurs, though obviously to a lesser degree, with larger classes of rods - it's just a fact of physics.

Also, my expectations for hooksetting performance are a bit high... anything less than 100% makes me frustrated!

I haven't tried Powerflex... is it a "no-stretch" based line too?

I'm not going to say that any type of running line doesn't have the ability to perform hooksets at 85' or more... obviously they all can do it. It's more a matter of can one "up" the percentage of success. Based on steelheading equipment/knowledge of the past history (15+ years and more), hookup performances of just over the fifty percentile mark used to be considered OK, and these Troutspey's, even with larger flies/sinktips, have already obtained that figure for me, even better actually, at around 60% to 70% is my gut "feeling" right now. But "today", by using "new" techniques/technology, my standard for successful hook to land ratio on larger classes of Speyrods has been increased to better than 75%, and so that "standard" is what I am "comparing" the Troutspey results with. And, that figure is what I now have set in my mind as to what should be capable of being accomplished on Troutspeys, even while using bigger flies and sinktips. Realistic goal? Maybe... maybe not We shall find out, and I think that GSP running lines are going to be the key!
 

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Ed & Steve: Thank you

I have used the Rio running lines in salt water with LC 13/T-14 and single handed rods . I believe the Rio lines are monocore and would be stretchy. I know in salt water, bait guys have gone to GSP to facilitate hook setting on hard mouthed fish like tarpon. I just never thought about using it on a fly rod, but it makes all kind of sense, though I can see that you would have to refine your striking technique when going from 100' of flyline to 100' of GSP. I don't know but I would guess that 100' of flyline has to have 5' or 6' of stretch to it. Maybe more.

Here is question #2: Do you agree that it makes sense to replace the running line on any factory spey line with GSP core running line? And can you think of a downside?

Thanks again.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It should be noted...

...that I am pressing these Troutspeys into a capability that by all rights is probably a bit outside their intended "window". The fly/sinktip combo's I am throwing on them are of a size/nature that many anglers would consider using a rod in an 7 or 8 class to accomplish. Why do this? Because I enjoy fishing with the lightest tackle that I can!

Also, I have to give kudos to rod designers like Bob Meiser who do their "magic" to up the performance levels of ultralight Speyrods and yet - still maintain that light, "lively", responsive feel - AND also manage to keep the rods within their respective line classes. In other words, without turning them into "poolcues" and/or rods that are labeled with a certain line designation but actually require a line weight 2 to 3 times larger to make them cast as seems to be the trend with some manufacturerers! So now there are 4, 5, and 6 weight Troutspeys that CAN, when combined with a Skagit line, fish large streamers and attractor flies for trout on sinktips, and still be loads of fun on 9", 12", and 15" trout!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
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Mark,
As I said earlier, I only have 6 hours of "experience" with the GSP so far. I will have to spend a bit more time on the water with it before recommending that anyone start lopping all of their running lines off to replace them with GSP.

However, if the next few "trials" continue to yield the same results as yesterday, I will definitely be switching all of MY running lines over to GSP! So far, I have not seen any "downside" to it.
 

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GUIDE LRL DC Running Line

Speyducer said:
Monic running line. I am looking to test out some different running lines for my Guideline heads, and have had several line suggestions. However, I can't yet source a Monic running line in the UK. Where may I get some over the pond, and what diameters/strengths are available??

Many thanks in advance for continued support on the forum.

Mike
Mike

You may want to try this Non-Stretch line. So far only available in 13 Kg. (say 28 - 29lbs). It's for use with GUIDE "Direct Contact" DDC Conect Shooting Heads; but with Airflo's 9 grooves running parallel in the coating.

UK availability is that Glasgow Angling list them in their Game 2007 paper catalog. They are expensive (like most stuff in the UK); but come FREE if bought with any 2 Guidline Heads!!
The same catalog lists the top TCR at equivalent US$1,400, same price for the 16' Z-Axis. G3 Waders $760 - no G4's here yet! G3 Jackets snip @ $700.
Enough of my rant at UK prices, because I know the Scandinavians & Danes get ripped off even more.

Let me know if you get a sample?

It would be interesting to have a side by side practical test on the MONIC versus any parallel grooved non stretcg (GSP?) running/shooting line. Anyone have both?
I seem to have drifted off the subject of this thread, appologies for that, and back to the subject: What breaking strain is MONIC .030"?
 

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I can't yet source a Monic running line in the UK. Where may I get some over the pond, and what diameters/strengths are available??

I have it and I'll ship to the UK. http://www.redshedflyshop.com/runninglines.html

Sage Thumb, I don't know the breaking strength of the Monic running line but I will find out today and post it here.
 

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Snowbee shooting Backing?

I've just got Snowbee Braided Monofilament Shooting Backing... It seems(to me)be smth between Slick shooter and average shooting line. Does it? Any idea?
 

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The Monic running line has a 70 lb GSP core.
 

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You could look at Jerry Brown Line-One or PowerPro Hollow GsP braid stuffed with mono. Its very thin, since the basic GsP line is 80lb, and floats, and is no stretch, Of course you have to stuff it with mono because you just can't buy the equivalent. The diameter is around 0.021" and it goes like a rocket, doesn't get kinked or twisted, that I've seen anyway, and is pretty cheap if you consider 100 yards for $15or so US for the hollow 80lb GsP.
You could if you were interested enough stuff a 500 yard spool of the hollow GsP, or the last 100 feet of a 500 yard spool, and have a integrated backing/running line with no connections, just one loop to the shooting head. Full 80lb system, no stretch and very thin, also goes very well on the reel, since its flat, being hollow. The big problem with using gps cores in running lines is getting things to stick to it, and nothing does stick to it, since its polyethylene.
MaxG.
 

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running line

Max Garth

Give me a brake Using running line with a mono core in winter. Get real . Read the whole post again Maybe you learn something.
 
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