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Discussion Starter #1
On a slow prowl for a used Tibor, and just wondering about the Rip and the Gulf line capacities; I know the ratings, but for you guys who use them for speys, what can you get on them? Thanks.
 

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Mr. Mom
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Skip the Riptide. I can't really get a 6/7 xlt on mine with alot of backing. Good reel with a 6/7/8 or 7/8/9 windcutter or similar line though. The gulfstream is a better all around spey reel.

That being said, I have a riptide for sale :devil:
 

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Debarb, re Tibors

I have both reels and find them superb. The Riptide balances a 13-foot 7-weight perfectly, while the Gulfstream does the same for larger rods. With a Tibor the fisherman knows there is no possibility of failure, according to guides from Key West to northern BC.

The question of backing is interesting. There was a thread titled "Wulff 30# Oval Backing... December 16, 2001, in which John Desjardins amazed this board with Homeric feats of microscopy and image analyses. Bottom line was that backing is not just backing. There are significant differences. Color is a major factor

I've done a bit more reading and found corroborating data in the Abel reel catalog. Here are some helpful facts:
¥ Using as a base reference the backing capacity of a reel using Wulff 30# Oval dacron backing:
- With Micron white backing deduct 10%
- With Micron colored backing deduct 15%
- With 50# Spectra add 100%

To answer your question about Tibor capacities.
¥ A Riptide holds a WC6.7.8 or a Skagit line consisting of a WC8.9.10 body plus a WC9.10.11 tip 1 plus 269 yards of Wulff 30# white backing.
¥ A Gulfstream holds a WC9.10.11 plus 280 yards of Wulff 30# chartreuse backing.
¥ A Gulfstream holds a MidSpey10.11 plus 225 yards of Wulff 30#chartreuse backing.
The backing lengths were measured on local fly shop's line winding machine.

In 2002 a 10 pound Kispiox buck took approximately 200 yards of backing plus a WC line on his first run, so I think 200 yards is a decent, and not excessive, standard for steelhead backing.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Holy smoke, Bob! Now if I could just get that kind of exhaustive precision elsewhere I'd be flying.

I confess to being--or to having been--skeptical about the need for that much backing, but as your story makes clear it all depends on the fish and the run. (One of my three spoolings when trout fishing came from a surprisingly small, 15-inch Deschutes redside, so I understand the difference in individual fish). Anyway, I'm covered on the smaller end of things, so it looks like--and Philster confirms this, even to his own disadvantage :chuckle:--it's the Gulfstream. If anybody hears of one--gold, preferably--for a good price, I'd appreciate a shout.

Thanks.
 

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Bob,

If I read your post correctly, one should be able to load a Riptide with 200 yards of 30lb. Micron, white or colored, and a Rio 7/8 Mid Spey. Correct?
 

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Mr. Mom
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Re: Debarb, re Tibors

Bob Pauli said:
The question of backing is interesting. There was a thread titled "Wulff 30# Oval Backing... December 16, 2001, in which John Desjardins amazed this board with Homeric feats of microscopy and image analyses. Bottom line was that backing is not just backing. There are significant differences. Color is a major factor
Bob
Hey Bob

I couldn't agree more with your statements above. Not all backing is created equal. Choosing backing strictly by diameter within a given pound class is like choosing your rod and reel based strictly on weight. It's as good as way to pick as any other, as long as it addresses your main concern.

I use Rio 30 pound chartreuse which is probably the fatest and stiffest you will find. The reason I do is because my main concern is not capacity (in most cases) but abrasion resistance, low maintenance, and overall durability. Spey lines cost alot and I don't get nearly th amount of time on the water as I would like. A lost line and the shortening of a day trip, who am I kidding... morning trip, is something I can't afford. It has proven itself to me in nasty saltwater conditions, resist mold and mildew very well (it appears to have a waxy coating which seems to reduces water absorbtion) , and even though I started using it because I worked in a shop that carried Rio, I continue to use it 3 years later as an over-the-counter-cashmoney-civilian.

If I need more capacity, I trot out the big Abel, or I turn to GSP. Like I said, I'm not arguing, just putting up another opinion.
 

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200 yd for 10#?!!!

Bob - that was a hot fish, what would it have been if the fish had weighed 20#? I've had some hot 10-12 # fish on the Deschutes too.
 

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Smolt,

If you have a Riptide and a Rio 7/8 MidSpey, mail/ship them to me and I'll return it to you with 200 yards of Wulff 30# Dacron, bimini looped to your MS.

PM me if the idea appeals to you.
 

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Has any one tried powerpro for backing? I am going to use it for backing for a saltwater trip in February, 30lb powerpro is the same as 8lb mono in thickness, there web site is www.powerpro.com
they also claim it will not cut you like gelspun backing. Just an idea,tight lines,brian
 

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PowerPro Backing

Brian - this is also gel-spun and will cut. It is treated so it is "better behaved" than much of the other gel-spun. I would recommend 50#, which gives you twice the capacity of 30# dacron. There are a couple of cautions in its use. If you attach the gel-spun directly to the spool, it can sometimes slip and rotate under load. I begin with about 25 yd of 30# dacron then use an Albright knot to connect to the gel-spun. This gives a base thet will not slip to wind the gel-spun to. You need to wind the gel-spun on under more tension that you do for dacron. Also, to help keep it from digging into itself, make a quick pass accross the reel after every layer, much like some of the more expensive spinning reels do. I end by attaching 50 yd of 30# dacron again with an Albright knot. I use a large double catch blind doop in the dacron to attach to a braided loop on the end of the flyline. With steelhead you do not often get into the gel-spun backing. The dacron loop at the end avoids the problem of gel-spun cutting the loop it is attached to under tension.

You might want to look at Trey Coombs book on saltwater fishing to see his suggestions on gel-spun use. He gives several options for attaching gel-spun to flyline.
 

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Whiskey Dick,

Power Pro's web site states its product is Spectra plus a treatment. Spectra is GSP and all such demand different knots. The Power Pro has 5 knots described in the web site with excellent illustrations.

GSP requires more special knots than the 5 listed and if your trip's success is important to you, you should buy "Geoff Wilson's ..Knots for Super Braids." I am not certain of the title, but it prominently states that it describes knots for super braid [GSP].

Amato books is located in Portland and has a web site www.amatobooks.com Geoff Wilson is the Aussie guru for knots for big salt water fish, and those folks really need and understand perfect knots.

For example, for an arbor knot with GSP, take a round turn [1-1/2 turns] around the arbor then tie a uni-knot with a huge number of turns, maybe 12 to 20. Excuse the lack of precision; it has been awhile.

Caution that Amato publishes at least 3 Geoff Wilson booksand only one is specifically directed at GSP.
 

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Mr. Mom
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Hey Bob

I've seen that booklet on knots for braid, and my reaction was not extremely positive. To each his own I guess. the knots are either too simple, or too complicated, and don't really help out the fly fisher that much. We need 3 knots for braids. A good loop, a knot to attach a good loop to the arbor, and a good knot system to attach braid to dacron. I've rigged literally hundreds of reels for bluewater, and always do a DOUBLED bimini (resulting in two equal loops, or four strands of line) of 50 turns. This doubled loop I usually attach to the arbor with a uniknot, although some folks still request a standard arbor knot, which seems to be real strong, but nobody I've rigged for has had to field test it yet :hehe:

This doubled loop has yet to cut through 50lb braided mono loops, so that's what I put on the end of the fly line. For ultimate security, passing the braid through the mono loop twice results in a definite no slip situation, but it also can be bear to undo in the heat of battle if you need to change over lines fast.

For Braid to Dacron, lots of folks use an albright, but I've seen that fail 3 times. I've never seen adjoining nail, or uni-knots fail, and for extra security I glue those with plio-bond.

Pretty simple stuff, and it seems to work. Learn the Bimini. It will come in handy.
 

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Hi Ted, Hi Bob, thanks for the info about the knots it will come in useful. Ted i first saw this stuff last week when i stoped by my local fly shop and a customer had brought some in to be spooled on a reel he had bought, I did get a chance to play with this backing and if my memory is right it was 20lb powerpro, it did not cut my fingers like the GSP i have tried in the past, it felt like 30lb miconite backing only a lot thinner. the other thing i noticed was it felt round not flat so maybe that is a big difference between GSP and powerpro and one of the reasons it did not cut me so easy. I saw on there web site that they say when tightening knots to Use a gloved hand, dowel, or soft-jawed pliers to avoid injury when tightening knots so it seems like it will cut you if you really pull at it. Again thanks for the info guys more research to do,:razz: tight lines,brian
 
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