[Grampa Spey]

I need to replace last year's leader backing on my Mid Spey 6/7.

This line is used only on my 7136 with dry flies or an intermediate sinking nymph with a 12 to 15 foot leader set up or to skate flies.

What size (pounds) of leader backing is recommended?

How long do you recommend the leader backing to be from connecting knot to the fly line to the perfection loop on the end of the leader backing?

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[t_richerzhagen]

More Info

Are you talking about the connection from line to leader? Or leader minus tippet?

I usually use a braided loop at the end of the fly line and connect to a perfection loop at the but of the leader.

 

[King Salmon]

I think he's talking about what is usually called a leader "butt section".

If this is the case I would use 20 or 25 pound Maxima, the ideal size is a diameter that is between the diameter of the flyline tip and the tapered leader butt. The idea here is to ensure a smooth transition of power in casting.

Length of the butt section:
Some folks use the butt section as a means to save the flyline tip from being wasted away as they change leaders time after time. Instead of cutting the flyline tip they trim away the knot on the butt section. If this is your reason for the butt section then a 18 inch section will do the job for a few years. Others use a short (6 inches or less) butt section with a perfection loop and attach the tapered leader with a loop to-loop connection. If your objective in using the butt section is to lengthen your leader then you might add a butt section of 3 or 5 feet. Using a 9 foot tapered leader would result in something 12 to 15 feet long.

Some folks also like to add to the tippet end of the tapered leader. This way the tapered leader is preserved as one keeps triming it away in the process of changing flys. Usually one adds a few feet of tippet 1X finer that the tapered leaders end. Using this technique one can turn a 9 foot tapered leader into something 16 to 18 feet long if desired.

 

[t_richerzhagen]

Length of Tippet

King Salmon

I tie most of my own leaders with the 60/20/20 formula, or something close to that. You will have much better leader performance by building a tapered leader with longer sections, than simply extending the tippet. I rarely use a tippet over two feet.

 

[Grampa Spey]

Thanks for your Feedback re leader control

The product I like to use here to connect the fly line to the leader is Hal Janssen's Leader Control (I believe that he used to call it backing).

I try to get the diameter of the leader Control as close to the tip of the fly line. Hal's 30 pound test works the best for most Spey lines.

After talking to Jim Teeney and others, I make that leader control section as short as I can and still get a perfection knot for any sinking line or sinking tip. Then my tippet is short. As Lefty Krehl says, "Why buy a sinking line or tip and then attach a 9 or 12 leader to it? The long leader defeats the purpose of the sinking line or tip."

Last year I tried the short leader control section (about 3 inches with a perfection loop) with my floating lines. I think that it terminates the power in the cast too quickly and can snap off a fly in my cast is not perfect.

I plan to retie my floating lines and tips this week/weekend with longer sections on the Leader Control.

Your recommendations sound about right re the length of the Leader Control. So I will try it. Also that length is perfect to attach to a Boles indicator or other indicator and attach a right angle tippet or leader to it for nymphing the long runs. The floating lines work great for this.

I wished that Rio would do what Orvis does. That is to install a factory made loop on the end of each line and tip. Then you just loop your leader or tippet on to that loop.

 

[King Salmon]

I'm familiar with Hal Janssen's Leader Control product and I often use it myself. It appears to me to be the same material as Sunset Amnesia, except that Amnesia has been died flouresent orange or green, black, or I even have some old suff died yellow. I believe in the old days when Hal worked for or with Sunset Line Company that it was his idea to introduce Amnesia to the fly fishing world.

 

[BobK]

Hey, Grampa Spey -

Check your PMs. You have mail.
BobK

 

[Grampa Spey]

BobK

Thanks for the info!

 

[nevada caster]

Loops on Rio products

Rio now offers a welded loop on the front end of of their Rio Grand fly line for single handed rods. Perhaps a few (hundreds)requests from the members of this clave would get them to offer them on thier their spey casting products. Their general email address is [email protected]

 

[speyrd]

Leader

There is more information about this on this board under the D loops and anchor thread, a responce by Cherry Pick. Let me throw some more choices at you. Try 15-20' of 20# max and taper the end to 12# tippet.

 

[Grampa Spey]

speyrd

Do you attach this 15 to 20 foot of Maxima directly to the tip of the spey line or do you attach it to a foot or more of Leader Control which is attached to the Fly line.

Then do you cast your normal amount of line (ie to your maximum sweet point/joint) out with this 15 to 20' of Maxima with both wet and dry flies?

Thanks for bringing this up!

 

[Nooksack Mac]

A different approach

I've tied my own leaders since my early years in fly fishing. In order to keep from duplicating most of the leader with every model, I came up with this system for my dry lines: I attached a permanent "semi-leader" seven feet long attached with a needle/nail knot, tapering from, usually, .022" through several sections to .013" which ended with a perfection loop.
I then tied up and labeled, with different colored thread around their perfection loops, a range of mini-leaders tapering from .011" or so, ranging from 2' 2X to 7' 7X. It's fast and easy to interchange these leader sections as needed. The loop-to-loop connection is far enough from the fish, and these leaders turn over just fine. This system has worked perfectly for me for nearly 30 years.
That's for trout tackle. For floating spey lines, I attach a similar semi-leader 9 or 10' long, tapering to .020." To this I need only attach one of my usual sink-tip leaders of 4-7 feet.

 

[King Salmon]

Nooksack Mac:

I like your idea! Years ago when I first learned to tie leaders I was shown a trout leader design that had the same basic construction- a loop to loop replaceable tippet section. I think its time to play with this system again. The tippet sections themselves are tapered, right?

 

[speyrd]

Leaders

Do you attach this 15 to 20 foot of Maxima directly to the tip of the spey line or do you attach it to a foot or more of Leader Control which is attached to the Fly line?

Either way will work. Lately I like a short butt section with a loop in the end of it.

Then do you cast your normal amount of line (ie to your maximum sweet point/joint) out with this 15 to 20' of Maxima with both wet and dry flies?

Yes. At some time prior to going fishing I will adjust the leader length to fit my casting for that day.
Sunk line fishing, swinging flies, we use a 3-4' section of 12-15# Maxima and adjust to water conditions according to clearity.


Are you comming to Fed's party the end of the month?

Leroy.....................

 

[Grampa Spey]

Nooksack Mac

Thanks for your feedback. I have done something similiar and taken the easy way out by the following.

Thanks to some feedback from someone not on this board. I bought some of Rio's Bonefish Leaders. Their 10' long leaders which taper down to 13.2 pounds on the fishing end.

I tied a perfection loop and attached them to a 3 foot section of 40# Maxima which is knotted to my Perfection Loop on my floating spey lines. This was recommended by Bob Meiser.

Then, I put a perfection loop in the fishing end of the Bonefish leader and attach 2 to 4 foot of tippet and tie it to the fly.

These work very well and last about a season. I have one now in the original package with a Skawla stone fly attached to the tippet. It has been used several times with just the replacement of the tippets.

LaFontaine's business sells furled leaders, and they have some heavy duty and long furled leaders. I plan to order a couple and try them. I have some of their shorter furled leaders both floating and sinking. They work really well and are about two+ years old.

 

[Grampa Spey]

speyrd

Thanks for your feedback. I have one more question please. What is the length of your shorter butt section.

Thanks, I will be printing this out for here at home and to carry with me on the rivers.

You save a fortune on leaders and tippet material with this technique of yours. My oldest son learned this trick with one handed rods when he lived in Bend years ago. He returned to California, and we went to our local fly shop to buy end stuff for steelhead. He bougt a few spools of Maxima Tippet to go with his Maxima spool he had bought in Bend. He paid about 6 dollars for his stuff, and I was out about $40. The was the worthless FC that Umpqua had. I had expensive breakoffs and he caught steelhead for pennies.

I will not be able to make Fred's clave. Bob Pauli will be coming up. We had family commitments scheduled. I would like to get up to the big D before it gets 110 in the shade and fish in Fred's garden on the way back this year.

 

[speyrd]

Butt section Length

Usually keep it rather short 6-9" of 25-30# Maxima. Memory starting to kick in now, we would use a short section of brightly colored Amnesia butt section as a strike indicator when nymphing for trout.
Leroy.................................