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Drags are for Sissys
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Discussion Starter #1
Being playing around with overhead casting on grass (snow).
Any anyone have tips or video on how to get nice narrow loops on the backcast?

cheers
Wayne
 

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EXACTLY the same as on the forward cast - line under tension, smooth linear acceleration to a firm stop. So if you know how to do a tight loop forward you already know. It is the same motion, but does use different muscles that have to learn separately. But I suppose there must be drills you could do that help to “trick” you into it. A lot of people actually tend to have BETTER loops on the backcast - a common thing, possibly related to trying too hard on the forward cast, that would probably take a psychologist to properly explain. Anyway this sometimes leads to the practice by many people of deliberately casting on a backcast (i.e. facing away from the target) in certain circumstances or when there are certain constraints.
 

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EXACTLY the same as on the forward cast - line under tension, smooth linear acceleration to a firm stop. So if you know how to do a tight loop forward you already know. It is the same motion, but does use different muscles that have to learn separately. But I suppose there must be drills you could do that help to “trick” you into it. A lot of people actually tend to have BETTER loops on the backcast - a common thing, possibly related to trying too hard on the forward cast, that would probably take a psychologist to properly explain. Anyway this sometimes leads to the practice by many people of deliberately casting on a backcast (i.e. facing away from the target) in certain circumstances or when there are certain constraints.
Great advice here. I use 11 foot switch rods for casting overhead with overhead lines on the beach. the abrupt stop cant be over emphasized; longer rods really want that tip to keep bending down; esp. in a back and forth tick tock of an overhead cast. Just dont "slam" your tip to the stop up high. just make it stop. a delicate balance but that was key for me anyway.
 

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"Stop" and narrow loops are fine, but in my opinion: Forming a "climbing loop" that is brought on by a slight "drift" after the stop (as opposed to rounded or pointed loop and just the stop) is more efficient. You can also form the "climbing" loop just the same with a firm stop and lowering the rod slightly on the forward cast.

Search spey pages or google Basic Spey and Two Handed Fly Rod Casting ( Vincent & Gawesworth) for more details.

Vic.
 

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I found when overhead casting a 2H(which I have not done a lot of) I was seeing the same issue. What I realized was the rod was drifting off plane. When forward casting I would pull with the lower hand as the top hand would drop. This would keep the rod tip travel on a flat plane rather than arching. On the back cast I was lifting the top hand and this would cause the tip to arch. What I did to attempt to correct it was to start with both hands higher allowing me to lower the rod slightly as the rod travels through the stroke keeping the tip on a flat as possible plane. Unfortunately I have not kept up with this but it certainly seemed to help with the short amount of time I was playing.

Dan
 

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Drags are for Sissys
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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks everyone for the responses... problem solved.
I was overloading the rod slightly on the backcast causing the tip to drop and the loop to open.
 

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In my opinion and experience, spey rods aren't the best for overhead casting. Surf rods and switch rods are what you need. That's what they were designed to do.
 

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I think Andrew Moy has a good approach to overhead casting a 2 hander. I find a lower back cast circling up to an almost vertical forward cast works better than a same vertical plane back & forward cast. It's almost an elliptical rod/line path with more constant tension than a hard stop & pause backcast. Since I spend a couple months at Pyramid lake every winter I found this technique works for me when high gusty winds, fast sinking lines and repetitive long casts are the game. But try some variations to find what works for you since it's all fun.
 

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Yes, Andrew is a good practicioner. It was neat; I got to chat about this with Lefty K years ago and he explained it using a similar anology that back and forth straight track becomes less effective when youre using a bottom hand, and also when you use other than floating lines.
 

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If that is the video I’m thinking of then Moy is teaching the Belgian cast there. Works well with even with a full length spey rod. Honestly I also find this is the one I feel most comfortable with casting a two-hander overhead. So in the context of the OP this is getting to the line stretched out behind you by circumventing (only somewhat) the whole issue of a tight loop on the backstroke.

Not perhaps what people might think to use at first, as in the context of single-hand casting usually the speed is one of the main features emphasized. But slow it down a bit (there isn’t much choice with a long rod) and use a two-hander and it can be a super powerful cast, not just a utility cast.

But I usually tone it back a bit at Pyramid, a little more vertical, unless I’m wading by myself. Even though I know rationally that there is enough room, doing a side-handed backstroke makes me nervous with someone on a ladder right next to me. :chuckle:
 

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Drags are for Sissys
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Discussion Starter #13
AAnother Overhead Question.-
What are the casting tips/techniques to avoid the fly touching the water when false casting the overhead cast?
 

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In my opinion and experience, spey rods aren't the best for overhead casting. Surf rods and switch rods are what you need. That's what they were designed to do.
Agree here, i went to 11 footers a whole other ball game; a better one for me.
 

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AAnother Overhead Question.-
What are the casting tips/techniques to avoid the fly touching the water when false casting the overhead cast?
Wading or otherwise casting in the surf - quite often I must wait for waves to roll past me and so I'm often false-casting several times before the delivery cast. Something that works very well for me in this instance is to slip some line into each false cast, both forward and to the rear. Doing so is essentially dissipating energy in the line so the turnover is not too forceful to slap the fly on the water.

And, drift of course. Im not aiming for very tight narrow loops. Especially when false casting since tight loops build high line-speed and strong turnover. Pushing out with the lower hand after a deliberate stop causes me to delay the forward stroke just long enough for the back cast to extend fully reducing/eliminating tailing loops and dropping the cast. I use the same drift-motion on both back-casts and when false casting.

I find keeping both the back-cast and forward cast very horizontal actually reduces the chances of dropping the casts. But when casting from an elevated platform, i.e., boat, dock, cliff... I aim the back-cast upward and the forward-cast downward keeping in-line with the principal of 180˚-out.

Vic.
 
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