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JD
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As mentioned on another thread, I have been playing with differing lengths of overhang. Starting with about one foot of line beyond the color change, to have extended beyond the tip top.

I have tried pulling line inside the tip. How to define that? Minus 12 inches, minus 18 inches, minus 24 inches? That didn't work too well. I fact it felt heavier. And the loops, if you could call them that, went all to hell. Wide open. Not to mention problems pulling the anchor loose.

I then started extending the overhang. Eighteen inches worked pretty well. the loops started looking better. And the anchor stayed put. Since then I have extended the overhang even more. Out to maybe two to three feet. It's kind of hard to tell exactly. Light conditions and all.

Mind you, I'm no expert at this. I still have to tell myself "pull with the bottom hand dummy" "this ain't top hand long belly casting" But when I get it right, it's off to the next county. :D

The interesting thing is, I had made up a Skagit head that was about five feet longer than what I wanted. (3X rod length) And it weighed in at 500 grains as opposed to the target 450. But I figured I could always cut it down. So off to the river with it. At first it felt way too heavy. (And why I was pulling line inside the tip top) I kept thinking "take out seven or eight feet of fat line, and add in three or four feet to the back of the front taper"

Next day out, when I started extending the overhang, it no longer felt as heavy and I was tossing some great looking loops,,,,right handed! (I'm a lefty) Not cak handed as Simon calls it. But full on right handed.

I still may cut this line back a bit. But more study needs to be done. Meanwhile, I would like to hear from others on the subject of overhang.
 

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Yesterday, I fished Putah Creek (casted is more like it).

I used my new Sage 5120, Rio Skagit 450, Rio's Mid Spey 7/8 15' Floating tip, and most of the time Rio's 15' Steelhead leader with about 18" to 24" of tippet with dry flies, intermediates and some terrestials.

The size of the flies ran from 6 in the drys/terrestials to 20 in the intermediate. One fly, I have nicked name Leaf/Twig is on a jointed hook and is about 1 1/3 inches long.

With the dries and size 6 terrestials, my casting worked best with 12" to 18" hangover. The big Leaf/Twig worked best with a few inches of overhang. It was easy to cast the leader, tip, 27' of head and one to two rod lengths of shooting line past the tip with river right casts. Those casts were going out 60 to 80 feet past my rod tip. I caught some willows and bushes on the other side a couple of times and had to shorten the shooting line length in some areas. There was a fair wind from my left to my right, however, with the Skagit and a floating tip as I have noted before, cross winds have little impact as the heavy Skagit plows through the wind.

At the end of the day, I put a big indicator on the 15' leader just above the fishing end loop and attached 3' of tippet to the end of the leader just before the indicator to right angle nymph the flies. This changed everything. I had to use Simon's trick of pulling about 10' of the Skagit head past my rod tip before casting. Then, I was able to shoot 1 -2 rod lengths of line plus the Skagit Head, leader and the floating tip. Otherwise it was just too much weight for the little 5120 plus the wind impact on the big indicator. My Sage 6126-3 is capable of doing this. Even it works best with about 3' of heavy tippet looped to the business end of the Skagit and attached to the indicator for right angle nymphing. Yesterday the water was very clear with a lot of fishers both bait chuckers and fly fishers, I felt the heavy Skagit line would be too obvious to the fish.

In summary most flies worked best with 18" to 24" of overhang. The big fly worked best with just a few inches of overhang. The big indicator with nymphs required about 10' of the Skagit head in and past the tip of the rod.
 

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loco alto!
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3,251 Posts
sean said:
JD the long belly zealot is skagit casting :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy:

I just fell off my chair,

-sean
Perhaps bored with real casting! I just hope JD isn't using a 15' rod for this blashemy! Really, this merits at least a little ribbing. Curious JD, what straw broke the camel's back?
 

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JD
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3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
straws

Intruder flies and sink tips were the culprits. :Eyecrazy: I just found they were much easier to handle with a Skagit setup. Don't get me wrong, I would still rather throw a long line. And if I realy had my druthers, I would rather skate surface flies at the end of a long line. But I wanted to try the big flies. And the thought of single speying those things ain't pretty. :eek:
 

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loco alto!
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aha, the usual culprits. I agree that there's no substitute for a long line when its fun to cast, but with heavy tips and big flies, you have to move up to the meat sticks (10 wts +) to cast with ease and authority. Then the fishing fun can suffer.

JD, if you still have the 8150, try a WC 9/10/11 with a 33-35' belly (includes rear taper) + 15' of 10 wt tips. kazoom! It naturally begs the user to cast using a continuous load, and the rod is soft enough to make fish playing fun.
 

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JD
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3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don't get it

I replied to another post where a guy was suggesting a Windcutter for a 15' rod. It just doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Windcutters don't make sense to me anyway. :D Nor do Mid belly lines. :whoa:

What does make sense is long belly lines on 15' rods. And Skagit lines on short rods. But that's just me. :razz:

Yes, I still have the 8150. But it will never see a Windcutter. :roll:
 

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loco alto!
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short/mid belly lines on long rods work well for:

* beating serious wind :devil:

* casting big heavy flies on fast sink tips :whoa:

* holding an XLT at 80' and calling it "long belly casting" :hihi:
 

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Steelhead are cool!
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JD,

Have you ever cast a long belly line on a rod under 15'?
Using your thinking that would be wrong.
What difference does it make what length line someone casts on there rod?
 

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JD
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I knew I'd catch it over that

Big K1 said:
JD,

Have you ever cast a long belly line on a rod under 15'?
Using your thinking that would be wrong.
What difference does it make what length line someone casts on there rod?
Yes, I have put an XLT and a GrandSpey on a 12 foot rod. And it worked. Just not near as well as on a longer rod. I never said it was wrong. Just that it didn't make sense,,,,,to me. And I don't really care what setup one uses either. Hey, if you want to use a spinning reel,,,upside down, cast, change hands and crank backwards,,,,have at it. :lildevl:
 

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Original Question

OK back to the original question. When Skagit casting I usually have the head pulled up to the end of the rod or possibly to the first eye in from the end of the rod. I have never been able to cast any line with the head of the line completely outside the eyes of a rod. To me it seems physically impossible to cast a spey line with the entire head out past the end of the rod with nothing but running line in the eyes?
 

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JD
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3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ChromeFever said:
To me it seems physically impossible to cast a spey line with the entire head out past the end of the rod with nothing but running line in the eyes?
Take my word for it. It does work. Think of it as casting a (single hand rod) shooting head with the entire head outside the rod tip.
 

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Chromefever,
The skagit line will work best once you can cast it with the belly out. I find with the Airflo skagit I am casting now I like about 6-8 inches overhang. Your loops will be much tighter with some overhang. There are guys throwing these a lot on the GL these days, where about are you ?

Gillie
 

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Sakgit Lines

I have been working on my skagit casting skills for 4-5 years now and I still havent found a set up that lets me cast with the entire head outside the rod. But when the rod tip is 14 ft away its hard to tell if the running line is at that last eye or not. It feels as though the rod will not load when the entire head is outside the rod and there is nothing but running line in the eyes? I have been using custom built lines and the RIO skagit lines. I live in WI, north of Green Bay.
 

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JD
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3,648 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
marking lines

If you mark the line with a permanant marker pen & burn it a little, it won't fade. I like the Rio line's color change at the back end of the head.
 
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