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Discussion Starter #1
All I hear about these heads is they are great but seems like everyone I have read from uses mono running line, will the airflo running line perform reasonably close to the same or will I have to switch over, I have become quite accustomed with my airflo running line
 

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your airflo running line will work fine. you would likely get more distance out of a cast with a slicker and smaller diameter mono running line such as opst lazar line but it is not necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh okay right on, what about length on mow/sink Tips is it necessary to have the 10' length with the shorter head or could you get away with a little shorter I do plan on eventually getting a set of T8 mow tips for you echo5109 but my commando head will be in alot sooner and all I have is an 8' section of T8
 

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BcNorth
I fished the Commando 425 on a burkie 8134 this season with a Rio Grip shooter running line and had good success. I just now picked up OPST Lazer and will try that out (and put a slip of tape on the cork to hold it) sometime. You'd be fine with any running line but agree that mono type will sling it out there a bit easier.
I don't know what rod you are referring to? But, 10' Mow tips should work fine on any DH rod in the 7 and 8 wt sizes.
Good luck
Loren
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Oh okay, good to hear and I have an echo classic switch 10'9 5# so can't wait to Chuck this head hopefully this weekend, just seems like it will be a better set up for my rod than the Skagit compact image now, for a new caster seems like this rod is so punctual with the timing and it seems like with the compact I Mabee get 1 of 4 casts, so Mabee this line will cut the curve and I will be able to hook into a fish soon
 

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For what its worth, pretty much all the echo switch rods are "switchy", which I'll define as being designed specifically to have enough backbone to do overhead casts. This is one of the reasons people say to be careful learning with a switch rod. Practice will make perfect, but if you want to see the difference in action for cheap, you could try out an Anglers roost 12' 5/6 ($110 on the auction site and at their web store). IMHO this is altogether a better (shortish) rod to learn on. Opening up the timing window is very useful initially in learning the feel of the casts.

I think the regular shooting line will actually be BETTER for you at the beginning - altogether fewer things you may have to be careful managing. Easier to grip, easier to manage the stripped line if you are not used to that. The only up side of the mono type shooting lines is the bit of extra distance. Worth it sometime, but not your primary concern yet, I'd assume.
 

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A 5wt switch will cast better with a thinner running line. For my preferences, the #20 Ridge running line would be too thick. Mono, i.e. #30 fluorescent Berkley Big Game will shoot the best, but not everyone likes the feel of mono running line.

I use #20 Scientific Anglers coated mono running line on my 5110 Deer Creek and I like it quite a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
My biggest thing with the Skagit compact line was having to pause before my forward cast instead of keeping one continuous motion from the sweep into forward cast with the shorter opst commando
 

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Pause?

IMHO, The thought of "pausing" using a Skagit Compact does not make any sense?--Water-born casts should be continuous motion casts.--Am I missing something here?
 

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IMHO, The thought of "pausing" using a Skagit Compact does not make any sense?--Water-born casts should be continuous motion casts.--Am I missing something here?

Yes, I think that is overgeneralized.<can'o'worms opening>

In the OPs case I going to hazard a guess that this is just a mental construct that gets the job done for him. Maybe all it ever is, either way, is a mental image that helps get it right.

But a lot of people distinctly throw the loop behind them in the second half of the sweep, especially if they want to cast more distance (bigger loop - with a skagit compact and a 15' sink tip there is plenty of line to do this, but of course really comes into its own on a little longer head), so there is a kind of bi-phasic sweep, the second half of the sweep is more straight back than than maybe would be included in your definition. The elbow breaks abruptly, rather than continuously is how it feels to me. On casts like that then yes you might consciously wait after the rearward sweep. For the best practitioner of this I personally have seen - Jeff Putnam - I am not even sure that the momentum of the "back cast" isn't adding a bit to the load, which I would say makes it an "advanced" spey cast in Jeff's hands. Or at least weird. But the "normal" version is just a change of direction in the sweep that is more rearward. It still forms a perfect D loop but it is a bit more authoritative looking sustained anchor cast. Faster in parts, but with a definite pause. Its taught by some instructors, and it is in some of the books. With that type of anchored cast you occasionally DO feel like you are waiting a bit (because you are), IF you think about it. For shorter heads it is easy to overdo this, but its IS an option.

When I see a video demo of the so-called totally continuous casts, that "feel" that way to the casters, that don't appear to nevertheless have a very slight pause I will believe that there is one of these that truly has no pause at all, instead of just feeling like there is no pause. Possibly what is meant is that the acceleration is constant - but to me the actual velocity of the tip appears to be zero just before the power stroke, even in the master, Ed Ward's, videos I have seen. In the end it doesn't matter - whatever works. Its just that the mental image for producing the right result may vary from what is actually happening, and from person to person. But it doesn't matter. Point taken, shorter the head, smaller the pause.

Edit: OK I'll take it back, went back and looked at a few again. In slowmo here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__oUQ5OEq8g at about 6:30 it DOES look like the tip is moving very slowly and not stooped. The angle in that video is particularly perfect for this. Not stopped, but pretty darn slow. Someone with a lot more experience that I would have to make the pause/no paused running. :) But its still totally awesome.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
With my echo 10'9 switch rod and the compact it seems like I need to pause a little to let the d loop form a bit better to really let some line go, but it's very tuff because my rod recovers so fast, I think with the shorter head it will be a little more forgiving, less pause or effort for me to get a good cast out, I pretty well chalk it up to inexperience, that's why I look forward to throwing this head on because from what I hear these lines are fairly forgiving
 

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That's a mouthful. You must be a grizzled casting veteran.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Not at all, obviously, or else I would have learned by now to unlearn it all -just way too much time on my hands, antsy and waiting for this weekends trip to the trinity. Sorry. Note to self - drink more instead.

bcnorthfly, all I can say is it feels to me like that sometime too, when thing are working like clockwork. I don't know why. Maybe it is just a way to remind yourself to slow down a bit. Whatever works.
 

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Pause?

BC North,----Wow!--What an awesome well thought out dialog on the "Pause" issue.---Maybe? I do have a slight pause or slowdown during the transition period between to sweep and forward cast.--I really am not too much interested in analyzing it, as I feel very comfortable after many years of trying too hard to put it all together.---Things began to come together faster when I started watching my D loop.

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #15
BC North,----Wow!--What an awesome well thought out dialog on the "Pause" issue.---Maybe? I do have a slight pause or slowdown during the transition period between to sweep and forward cast.--I really am not too much interested in analyzing it, as I feel very comfortable after many years of trying too hard to put it all together.---Things began to come together faster when I started watching my D loop.

Bill
Thanks Bill, I am not sure how much sense it actually makes, just seems when I "pause" or slow down and watch that d loop form I end up throwing line better, but I am fairly new so who knows alot of trial and error, I am getting better with my timing every time out.

I am not saying that getting this shorter head on my shorter switch rod is gonna do me any good but I cant wait to experiment with it and see if it works better for me and my rod....at the end of the day I have no clue but it sure is alot of fun learning
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well got it in the mail and quickly tried it out, very easy pick up, nice fluid cast, now just need to learn how to juggle the running line a bit better lol

I am getting the same distance of cast as my skagit compact but with what feels like less effort (60 to 80 feet) which I figure is where my 10'9 switch rod will cap out with any sort of control

I did realize that the d loop seems to be alot smaller to get the same amount of line out which I can definitely see applying in the north coast of British Columbia. Should work great on the closest steelhead river (meziadin) where there is little back cast room and lots of debris running along.

There are so many smaller to medium sized rivers around this area that prior to getting into the two handed game I would not have been able to efficiently fish with my single hander. And now with this compact head I think the opportunities are even greater.
 

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I recently put an OPST 300gr on my 6110 redington dually and I've been impressed with it. Can load under such a short amount of space behind me it's pretty crazy. I have an Airflo miracle braid 30lb behind it with a spliced loop and I absolutely love it. Used rio slick shooter for a while and I will never go back. Miracle braid is amazing!

I use MOW tips on my OPST and they work pretty darn well. I am so shocked at how this 300gr head turns over 10' of T11 and a weighted fly.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I recently put an OPST 300gr on my 6110 redington dually and I've been impressed with it. Can load under such a short amount of space behind me it's pretty crazy. I have an Airflo miracle braid 30lb behind it with a spliced loop and I absolutely love it. Used rio slick shooter for a while and I will never go back. Miracle braid is amazing!

I use MOW tips on my OPST and they work pretty darn well. I am so shocked at how this 300gr head turns over 10' of T11 and a weighted fly.
Ya no kidding hey, doesn't take much to load it up and get it out there, I am using this with the ridgerunner running line and enjoy it quite a bit, I have the 250 grain on my 5wt 10'9 echo classic switch and am really having alot of fun throwing this head, still have some getting used to it, my biggest problem seems to be the handling of the running line compared to the Skagit compact or the rage compact I have been casting prior to this, but once I get the hang of that I will be laughing, I don't know I will pull out the single handed rod on these smaller waters unless I am gonna toss a dry fly out which seems to be less and less as time goes by
 
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