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Mr. Mom
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Discussion Starter #1
This morning I was giving the Derek Brown 8/9 Grandspey 7/8 combo a workout on stillwater, and I had a number of personal breakthroughs.

Foremost was I've started using my lower hand to throw line back to form my D loop. I know Simon and Derek talk about keeping that hand against your chest and not throwing it around (trunking, etc.), but I'm talking about a very controlled use of of the bottom hand. A push that is the mirror image of the pull used on the forward cast with attention paid to where you are moving the rod tip. Basically instead of throwing the line behind me, I am truly casting it behind me.

Maybe not for everyone, but the results were a very dynamic V loop, and much more control when throwing back the entire belly of the Grandspey.
 

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Pullin' Thread
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4,694 Posts
We can't have you doing this rule breaking!! It must cease immediately or the spey police will issue a citation. Besides, it will mess up a new spey caster to see you so blatently break the spey casting rules!
 

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Yes yes yes!

I agree - I've been doing this recently with the CND Salar and GrandSpey 7/8. It allows a very pointy dynamic DLoop and also set up an ideal position from which to start the forward cast (bottom hand further forward). I've also used it on the Snake Roll off the right shoulder.

The one thing I've had to watch is making sure the upper hand is moving back ~and~ up (as opposed to straight back) when you apply power with the bottom hand, otherwise that pointy DLoop lands right in the water behind you! :rolleyes:

I hadn't thought about it but i guess it is a bit tradition-breaking as well as being very effective. Makes me like it even more!:devil: :devil:

DS
 

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lower hand movement

I reached new levels of control and of letting the rod do the work when Ed Ward shared some of his thoughts about the bottom hand movement. very important to use it to push and manage the rod thruout the casting sequence. I even use it for when I need an initial mend.Beau
 

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Phil

How funny you should mention this as I have been working with this also with the long lines and the salar. The initial lift of line always seems to expend to much energy to me especially with tips. Been working with the bottom hand more through the lift and into the horizontal plane of the rod. The results have been good but have to be careful to not hinge the rod to much and create slack line, the killer of all long line casting. I noticed when throwing tips the other day it felt pretty effortless almost like casting heads again. Will have to keep working on this.

Brian
 

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Skagiteer
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Would somebody please send me a copy of the rules. I didn't even know there was any!:confused: I guess I'm also guilty of breaking them.
I always use my left (bottom) hand to form a greek D-loop (V-loop, Wedge-loop, compressed D-loop). I should add that I cast windcutters (often with the belly extension removed) and delta spey lines, and so, the use of the bottom hand isn't just an advantage for long line users, but rather an advanced technique to get more load from your D-loop for any line. It works well for all casts as well. I don't teach this technique to beginner level casters as it's not necessary to learn how to spey cast and would only serve to confuse and divert attention from the more important basic fundamentals.
I feel that there are at least four keys (not rules) to delivering a powerful greek D-loop.
1. Acceleration to an abrupt stop. This one should be considered a basic fundamental for any casting stroke, single or double handed. The stroke should start slowly, like a drift, to the halfway point and then accelarate quickly to a positive and abrupt stop.
2. The bottom hand kick. I feel this should be reserved for the finishing of the stroke. Applied late it will aid greatly in the acceleration of the stroke.
3. Care that the left hand doesn't cause a downward movement of the rod tip. As Doublespey pointed out the upper hand must move back and up, not just back. Also, the bottom hand should travel in sort of a C-move as in Goran Andersen's underhand cast. The severity of the "C" will depend on the type of cast and length of line. Goran adimently preaches the use of the bottom hand for the D-loop stroke.
4. A lower finishing point for the rod tip. The closer the rod tip is to the water the more compressed the greek-D will be. The Idea is that of a tight loop. The closer the rod tip is to the water the tighter the loop. Also, the closer the rod tip is to the water the faster the acceleration must be. The feeling I get when trying to really get a tight greek-D is almost like side arm casting.
Great topic philster, but this isn't rule breaking, but rather discovering advanced techniques for more distance. These and other advanced techniques simply aren't necessary to cast the more common modest lengths of line. Fun though.
 
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