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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I am used to Skagit style casting. I recently picked up a 55 foot shooting head short belly. I know that this will not cast T14 so what are the tipit recommendations for touch and go style casting on this line? Thanks in advance.
 

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Slim fly does not need much added weight to sink very fast when it is in the end of long and thin mono leader and IMO this setup is easier to cast than sinking tip in the end of long fly line head.

Esa
 

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some short mid and even long belly lines are capable of casting heavy sink tips .. In my personal experience more than 12 ft of sinking material is what it would get you in trouble . I dont know which line you are using but t14 is very plausible I will start with 12 ft of t 14 and 4 ft leader and cast and cut down until you get the desire result ..
 

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Completely dependent on weight-class and taper. A 6/7 -vs- an 8/9 -vs- a full-floater -vs- looped or cut back for tips. Which line are you casting?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Completely dependent on weight-class and taper. A 6/7 -vs- an 8/9 -vs- a full-floater -vs- looped or cut back for tips. Which line are you casting?
It is a Scientific Anglers Evolution 55' short belly. 600 grn line. On a Sage 9150-4 IIIE got it cheap and wanted something to cast that will allow me to fish in colder weather with out pulling running line through my guides freezing. This with the proper leader will get me about 65 to 70 ft cast in most cases far enough that that is all I will need out. I own a small business so Sunday is the only day I get a chance to fish so I am going regardless of temperature.
 

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T-materials in any worthwhile lengths are going to be problematic as mentioned. Maybe t-8 under 10 feet. You'd be better off with 15 foot lengths to get down and stay. SA 120 spey tips are recommended for their 6/7 spey lines - I cast a type VI on a WA7/8 580 grains and it is a sweet match. It will run about as deep as I've ever needed to go.
 

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I'm not familiar with that line but if it were me I would see if the line would handle a 10' fast sinking polyleader and appropriate fly.

If that does not work for you I would consider chopping the line back to where it has enough mass to turn over 10 or 12 feet of t8 or t11 and looping it. You might have to chop 20 or so feet off to get it done. Realistically that is most likely your best bet until you get more time in with that style of line.
 

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Im rescinding my recommendation for 120grains for *100 grains instead. Put a fast sining polyleader in front of that line as mentioned by Skagitmiester and give it a try.

The SA Type VI 15' spey-tip that I mention is actually 92 grains scaled & measured. SA recommends 120 for their spey lines up to 7 weight (470 grains ) that may be doable, but I believe that without cutting the line, they will be too heavy & more headache that anything. *The 15 foot tips I have for 8 weight spey lines are 110 and 80grains for 7 weights.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have been doing as much reading as I can find on this line. Not much out there. Lots of Google time with little results. Talking with a English friend of mine and he used this line for salmon said he used a tapered leader and weighted flies tied on copper tubes. Spey lines are so specific in their attachments and very little will cross over from one system to another. It is what I find confusing as every manufacturer has many lines available and they do not put a listing of recommended tippets and leaders on the information about their lines. There are tapers and coatings and how smoothly it will run through the guides but some how we are supposed to instinctively know what attaches to the end to attach the fly to or make it sink. As far as I am concerned their information is incomplete. If they would give a few suggestions as to whether you need a tapered leader or a poly tip or t material with a tippet it would make venturing into a new line easier for the newbie to a system. This is almost as confusing as when I first started with a Skagit system had to learn what went with the lines for the rivers I fish. Oh well the learning curve is interesting for sure.
 

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I have been doing as much reading as I can find on this line. Not much out there. Lots of Google time with little results. Talking with a English friend of mine and he used this line for salmon said he used a tapered leader and weighted flies tied on copper tubes. Spey lines are so specific in their attachments and very little will cross over from one system to another. It is what I find confusing as every manufacturer has many lines available and they do not put a listing of recommended tippets and leaders on the information about their lines. There are tapers and coatings and how smoothly it will run through the guides but some how we are supposed to instinctively know what attaches to the end to attach the fly to or make it sink. As far as I am concerned their information is incomplete. If they would give a few suggestions as to whether you need a tapered leader or a poly tip or t material with a tippet it would make venturing into a new line easier for the newbie to a system. This is almost as confusing as when I first started with a Skagit system had to learn what went with the lines for the rivers I fish. Oh well the learning curve is interesting for sure.
I have a SA Evolution Short Head in a 8/9. I've only test cast it, so my experience is limited. I believe the recommendation to try a sinking polyleader should work just fine. This line has a very positive turnover, and should not have trouble with a polyleader, as long as it's a light one like an 10' Airflo "Trout" or Salmon/Steelhead polyleader. If that works well, stepping up to a 14' poly would be my next experiment.

briansII
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have a SA Evolution Short Head in a 8/9. I've only test cast it, so my experience is limited. I believe the recommendation to try a sinking polyleader should work just fine. This line has a very positive turnover, and should not have trouble with a polyleader, as long as it's a light one like an 10' Airflo "Trout" or Salmon/Steelhead polyleader. If that works well, stepping up to a 14' poly would be my next experiment.

briansII
I tried a 14 foot floating poly last weekend. It was not good. Now this is more than likely my casting proficiency with this style of line as last weekend was my first attempt. I would get a cast that hit the end of the line in the air but only the first half of the leader would roll out the rest dropped onto the water like a puddle cast. So I put more on my underhand and it would roll out but with a hook so once I figure out how to keep my tip straight with more power which is timing and practice so the moves are more fluid not mechanical then this tip should work. I did not have a sinking type poly with me nor a tapered leader so I could not say they will work but the line fell to the water before half the line had rolled out with a t line tippet so there was not enough weight in the lines front end to handle the t line. I did not cut the line back so I can not say whether that will work or not as the line is as it comes out of the box.
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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there are lines, and casters, who can make T-14 fly on a short spey head.


That's the problem with basic ASSumptions, eh?:D
 

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if this is your first longer spey line, then use a mono leader. Most spey lines 50' and longer are developed using mono leaders. Using heavier stuff on the terminal end of a longer line can certainly work, but will make the learning curve much steeper.
 

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It is a Scientific Anglers Evolution 55' short belly. 600 grn line. On a Sage 9150-4 IIIE got it cheap and wanted something to cast that will allow me to fish in colder weather with out pulling running line through my guides freezing. This with the proper leader will get me about 65 to 70 ft cast in most cases far enough that that is all I will need out. I own a small business so Sunday is the only day I get a chance to fish so I am going regardless of temperature.
600 gr divided with 55' makes it about 11gr/ft average weight but when Spey lines have fine tips and long front tapers the first 10 ft of line tip might weight only 60 gr so it is very bad "locomotive" for sinking tips and for most polyleaders too. Try thin 15 ft leader and classic "feather wing" or brass tube fly etc. and you should get deep enough. And more depth when performing immediate mend.

Esa
 

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Discussion Starter #16
there are lines, and casters, who can make T-14 fly on a short spey head.


That's the problem with basic ASSumptions, eh?:D
Yes I have seen these guys on the river they do exactly what you say. The ones I know have not tried this line and when they looked at the taper they all said floater only. So what that means I am not sure but it is why I bought a floating poly leader to try. This is my first longer line so I did not expect to be a master caster with it I am just trying to find a combination I can start with.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
if this is your first longer spey line, then use a mono leader. Most spey lines 50' and longer are developed using mono leaders. Using heavier stuff on the terminal end of a longer line can certainly work, but will make the learning curve much steeper.
This is the second time I have been told this and I will be getting a tapered leader to try this weekend. The other fellow also told me to watch my anchor and not to quit moving my rod on the back stroke until my fly moved towards me this he said ensures no slack in the line for the forward cast. This is my first attempt at a longer line for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
600 gr divided with 55' makes it about 11gr/ft average weight but when Spey lines have fine tips and long front tapers the first 10 ft of line tip might weight only 60 gr so it is very bad "locomotive" for sinking tips and for most polyleaders too. Try thin 15 ft leader and classic "feather wing" or brass tube fly etc. and you should get deep enough. And more depth when performing immediate mend.

Esa
I never thought of the mathematics involved very interesting for sure.
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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Yes I have seen these guys on the river they do exactly what you say. The ones I know have not tried this line and when they looked at the taper they all said floater only. So what that means I am not sure but it is why I bought a floating poly leader to try. This is my first longer line so I did not expect to be a master caster with it I am just trying to find a combination I can start with.
good, good.
The idea is to work with the longer line, become proficient at the casting stroke required to make it usable and fishable for you (some of the suggestions in this thread are a great place to start) and then begin to diversify.

Most here would agree with me when I say the casting stroke for a spey length head will vary according to the terminal tackle you're using. A mono leader is the place to begin, and over time you'll gain mastery of the line and be able to use polys and bigger flies, and eventually even sinktips.

Along the way you'll find that tip diameter has everything to do with a given line's ability to carry tips and turn them over. Most of us will cut back the tips of lines that we regularly use with sinktips, or buy lines that are pre-looped to swap sinktips for floaters.

There are a few notable shorthead speys that don't require cutting back for light to moderate sinktips.

Good luck in your new casting adventure! It's always a pleasure to see a fellow kick off his training wheels and cast a new kind of line. Good on ya.
 

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Ok I am used to Skagit style casting. I recently picked up a 55 foot shooting head short belly. I know that this will not cast T14 so what are the tipit recommendations for touch and go style casting on this line? Thanks in advance.
Ha - I've been going along thinking tipit a type-o, but meaning to say tips. Tippet , and you may be aware, is usually a few feet added between terminal and the fly. IF all you are looking for is some sort of terminal to you spey line - then, yeah - I would go with a long tapered leader plus 2 to 4 feet of tippet down to the fly. The tippet will conserve the length of your tapered-leader from clippings and tying knots. Get comfy working that and then move on as mentioned...:rolleyes:
 
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