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Discussion Starter #1
I've been reading John Ashley-Cooper's The Great Salmon Rivers of Scotland (published in 1980, updated 1987) noticed that he has specifically pointed out the skill the Ness spey casters who fish the Association water (p. 151). With the success of Scott Mackenzie at the Musto (and elsewhere) and that Grant himself was a Ness regular one has to ask is there anything particular to the style of these casters? (more than just perfect technique)

Seeing so much about Skagit style written I'm curious to know if there is anything specific to "Ness-style" casting that is unique? If JAC was so impressed I'd like to give the Ness regulars the opportunity to elaborate.

Chris

BTW - The pictures from the opener in Scotland are awesome. I'd like to visit the homeland to see that some day.

http://www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk4/forumdisplay.php?f=15
 

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Being an Invernessian who nowfishes the Spey I feel I have a wader in each camp.
The Ness is a big river and requires long casts especially in the heavily fished town water. If you are not throwing 30yds you ain't in the game.
Scott and Gordon Armstrong were both brought up in this enviroment. Theirs is the power game, short on style heavy on power. Don't get me wrong I'm impressed but compare Gordon & Scott's style to Ian Gordon and if there were marks for style Ian would win by miles.

Apply crash helmet and duck below parapet. I was supposed to be fishing with Gordon again on Thursday.
 

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A real mans cast

This in my view is the difference between the traditional Spey cast and a Ness style Spey cast.

The Ness cast is not broken up like the spey cast. i.e. there is no inital raising of the rod to get the line off the water before directing the line into the D-loop postition. The line is "dragged" off the water in one motion and put (thrown) straight into the D-loop. The rod is kept far flatter than in a traditional spey, and the line is thrown further back (longer casting stroke), creatring more of a > loop.

By carrying out this cast, I find longer distances can be achieved.

If you have ever seen the width of the Ness you will understand the need for this. :Eyecrazy:

Malcolm is wright, as far as Ian Gordons style of spey casting is possibly neater. But there is no denying the Ness style spey cast is a "real" mans cast and not for the faint hearted. :devil:

Gordon
 

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fishingd0 said:
The rod is kept far flatter than in a traditional spey, and the line is thrown further back (longer casting stroke), creatring more of a > loop.
Here's an old thread with some pictures of Scott in action, which shows what Gordon is talking about. The rod comes back almost to the horizontal, and is then raised so both hands are up above head height at the start of the forward stroke.

http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=17050

Compare this to the hand positions in, for example, the video of Steve Choate's switch cast, in which I think he is also using an XLT (or at least a prototype of it). Here Steve's upper hand is at about head height, his lower hand is down at armpit/shoulder level, and the rod about 20-30 degrees off the horizontal.

Watching the Musto finals, I was struck not only by how far back Scott took his rod, but also by how high the final delivery was, which enabled him to shoot huge lengths of line. I guess that a low starting point for the forward stroke means that he can apply massive amounts of power and still finish his cast with a distinctly upward trajectory.
 

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Distance casting

Meeting Scott on Thursday, going to introduce him to the speypages, i think he will be suprised that he is already there, cant wait to see his reaction. :chuckle:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Reminds me a little of what Derek Brown once said regarding the switch cast during one of his stateside visits. Derek's interpretation of the switch (according to Grant) was to "pull" the line off the water at the beginning of the switch and not "cast" the line off the water into the > loop. He claimed "casting" the line off the water killed the back cast and loop formation.

Is there any video of the Ness casters online anywhere? The stills are great but I'd really love to see this in action.

Thank you very much for the replies. Looks like you've all got some monster arms out there. My blood is up already and I'm even more determined to make the trip one day.

Chris

PS. While I'm at it what's the availability for water on the Ness?
 

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Dana said:
if you guys can get some video of gordon casting and send it to me I could put it up for everyone to look at and then we could chat about it.
No probs

Will be on the Helmsdale on Thursday, will try and get something sorted out.

Gordon
 

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wilson said:
PS. While I'm at it what's the availability for water on the Ness?
You can get a ticket on the Town water from Grahams in Inverness, they are not choosey they even served Mr Muckel Salmon when he was over.

The private beats are easily available early in the season when the fish are streaming past and have no intention of stopping. Later in the season July onwards you have little chance of getting on, no surprises there then, lifes always like that.

The town water is probably the best association water in Scotland in 2004 453 were recorded out of 1244 for the river. Or to put it another way 36% came of the bottom three miles. It is a hard fished piece of water and the locals can belt out a line, unless you are confident of casting over 25yds consistently I would consider elsewhere. If I were putting together a team to catch a salmon to save my life some of the association boys would be high up on the team sheet.
 

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Wilson

If you are planning comming over I have some contacts that may beable to get you on the better beats.

Availability in prime season is some what limited, but weeks can be had.

Drop us a line if you ever plan comming over.

Gordon
 

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Danger overhead

If anyone does make the journey to the Ness be very, very aware of the trees overhead. But as long as you hook up with Willie Gunn you don't have to worry too much as he has established an account for quick ring (guide) replacement :chuckle: .
 

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Interesting enough I was re-reading Simons Spey Casting book and his 'advanced' single spey chapter sounds just like this 'Ness' Style of casting.

Very flat lift and sweep which enables you to keep the vloop small, by small I mean the distance between the top and bottom leg of the loop, and full of energy.

This is the sweep style I have gone to with my T&Ts and it seems to work very well for that style of rod. Well it works 5 out of 10 times for lame duck casters like myself :roll:

-sean
 

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Going out on a limb here!!! But I am calling it D loop compression for lack of a better term. When controlled with a smooth flat stroke can make for effortless casting at normal ranges. Put a little trajectory into the equation and tilt the rod back for the forward stroke and use a little wieght transfer and you have a very powerful distance cast. Leroy teeple showed me this awhile back and I have been working on it ever since, not quite as smooth as Leroy yet but its fun to play with.
 

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peter-s-c said:
Sounds like a story in need of a detailed telling . . . . .
Peter, Short story, The Ness was running high and the best/only pat of the Town water worth fishing was the Red Braes. Young Gordon Armstrong was there banging out his 40 yards with his Powerlite and Rio Accelerator.
Ramsay(Muckle Salmon) and myself were fishing carefully down behind him Ramsay had already had a pull from a Ness salmon. The water was deep, chest wader high deep, near the bank but the overhanging trees made casting from the bank impossible. I suffer from ducks disease, my arse is to close to my feet, so I was having greater problems than the others. At various stages the branches of the trees dipped down and great care had to e taken and it is here that I caught my B&W Whisperer on the branch during a cast there was a nasty clatter and three of the eye guides disappeared.
End of fishing for me.
I have not told this story as Ramsay seemed to be chopping his way through the branches with his borrowed T&T I just hope the rods owner does not frequent this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hihi:
 

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Malcolm,

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who has "removed a rod guide" from his 2-hander when fishing. I did it the 3rd year I fished my old Sage 9140-4 brownie (it must have been 1995) on the lower Sol Duc River in Washington State. I allowed the rod tip to get a bit too vertical and managed to remove the guide just below the rod's top. It too ended my fishing for the day and produced a very hearty belly laugh from the friend I was fishing with, especially since he was using an 11' 9wt single-hand rod. :eek:
 

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Willie Gunn said:
.
I have not told this story as Ramsay seemed to be chopping his way through the branches with his borrowed T&T I just hope the rods owner does not frequent this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hihi:
Ah Malcolm, you obviously missed the underlying method to my tree chopping madness ;) .You will be happy to know that I am now the proud owner of said T&T :lildevl:

Ramsay
 
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