[Andre D]

My wonderful fiance bought me a Spey Rod for Christmas. Was I surprised. But I think it it too much rod for what I need. She bought me a SAGE 10151-4. Now I have never used a Spey rod before, casted a few time, but nothing I would say to make me experienced. So I would consider me a true beginner. After talking to the flyshop where it was purchased, the owner was surprised that I would have chosen that rod too. I mainly fish smaller rivers, but would like something that I can take when I fish a larger river. My local rivers are the Lower Sac, Feather, Trinity and Klamath. I have fished the Rogue and want to eventually learn the Umpqua and Deschutes. I wan tto leave my options open to fish any river. What I am looking at now is something like the SAGE 9140-4, 9141-4 and the Loop Blue and Green 9140's. Do you think these are still too much, or would they work for a beginner in hope of becoming proficient in spey casting. The Loops are considerably less than the Sages and feel that for the amount of time I would use them would be a better value. I am also condiering matching it with a Bauer M6SL and a Rio Mid Spey Versa Tip system. What do you all think? Sorry for the long post.

 

[fredaevans]

My .02 cents only on this one.

The 10 wt 15' foot Sage may be 'over kill' for much of the water(s) you're looking at fishing. A rod in the 15' range is not a bad thing, but a 10 wt may be too much for a 'beginners rod.'

Personally, I've never used a Loop rod but the Board is repleat with folks who have and all rave about the rod(s). Ditto the T and T's and Scott rods. If your 'set' on a Sage I'd recommend you consider the 9150-4 as it's far lighter than the 10wt, will cast a dry line, or tips a mile, fast action, etc., and etc.

Have both the 14' and 15 foot versions of this Sage rod and they're like night and day. The 14' has a 'traditional action' whereas the 15' is far more 'european' in it's feel, casting ability and (OK just say it Fred) I LOVE THIS ROD to bits for winter and Spring Kings work. A tad heavy for low water summer work unless your working with tips (or my preference of extra fast sinking leaders).

Sounds like your a great candidate for attending the Spey Clave on the Sandy River. Just about every rod available will be there for you to 'test drive.' And for the kind of money you're talking about I'd want to pull a few cars off the lot for a 'spin around the block.'
fae

 

[Bob Pauli]

Andre D--First Spey Rod

Your instincts are correct. A 9-weight 14-foot rod is the mid-size rod, neither large nor small. If you had to have only one rod, the 14-foot 9-weight would be a logical choice. It will fish the larger rivers you want to cover.

But a 9-weight is too much rod for NorCal's Trinity River, where a 7-weight or less would be the choice.

As with single-handed rods you have the wonderful dilemma of how many to buy. If you go to past threads on this board, you will find one named “How many spey rods do you own?”

I fish the Trinity frequently using a 6-weight 9-foot single-handed rod and recently a 7-weight 13-foot spey rod. On the upper Trinity the spey rod handicaps the fisherman on some runs, and while being enjoyable, is of small fishing benefit on the others, so I recommend the smaller rod be a later purchase.

Regarding lines, most new casters begin with a Rio WindCutter or equivalent. The Rio Products web site has a technical section which recommends the line weight for most spey rods. This section gives you line choices for fast action and medium action.

Many memebers of this board have more experience than I, and their line recommendations would be worth considering.

 

[Bob Pauli]

Andre D

The woman is a keeper!

 

[Andre D]

Yes she is!

On the Trinity, I will use my 9'6" 8 wt. I agree that a 14 footer would be too big. Also i usually float the trinity in a CAT so I can cover most of the water I need to.

 

[Grampa Spey]

Andre D

If you fish the Lower Sac for Salmon and plan to fish the Feather for Salmon, keep the rod your wife bought you. It will handle the big Salmon on the lower Sac, Feather, American, Smith, Klamath, Chetco and Rogue. Also if you go to Alaska, it will handle about any salmon up there or the really big steelhead in BC.

If you keep your 10151, you need to contact Fred Evans to get in line to test the Grand Spey line. You might want to test both the 10/11 and 9/10.

The old Loop 4 balances the 10151 perfectly with 300 yards of micro backing 30# and a Rio multi tip line.

Then, buy the Sage 7141 or Bob Meiser's two handed 7/8 for steelhead, the Trinity or other medium streams. That way with two rods, you have everything that we fish in California to SW Oregon covered.


On really windy days, if you have a Rio multi tip line for your 10 weight, you can remove tip two, connect the tip you want to use to the main line, and still cast when most of us with 7's are having problems. This September/Oct., I was on the lower Rogue and the upstream wind was really high. I was still able to cast my 10151 without tip two 60 75+' out with the wind coming upstream at about 30 knots.

If you buy a 7 weight, buy Rio's Mid Spey instead of their WC. The Mid Speys are really a pleasure to cast, and to me are easier to use than the WC's. I have the MS 6/7 dry, and yesterday I ordered Rio's new MS 7/8 with the interchangeable tips. I will mix and match the sinking tips from the MS 7/8 and the WC678 that I own. That will give me basically 8 tips to play with. When I only need the dry line, my old MS 6/7 will be used. They all work well with my 7141.

My WC678 with tips is used with my Meiser 7/8 without tip 2. The WC 678 and the Orvis Double Tapered Slick Steelhead 8 floater cover any medium to small stream in our area, perfectly with Bob's 7/8 two handed rod.

If you can only afford one rod, get the guy who sold the 10151 to your wife exchange it for the 7141. Regardless, you keep your wife and take her out to dinner a few times.

 

[nevada caster]

rod choice

I am not an expert caster, but I do have a lot of rods. If I were only going to get one rod for all time, my first choice would be an eight weight. If I thought there was the possiblity that I would purchase a second rod in the future, my choice would be for a nine weight, with a seven weight somewhere in the future. However.........

 

[ChromeFever]

Sey Rods

While I have never used to Sage 10151 I would say it is probably overkill for what you want to do. If you are looking for one good all around rod I would check out something in a 14' 8-9 wt. You can use these just about anywhere and still throw everything from dry flies on floating lines to something like Rio's big boy. For a line I would look at either the RIO WC multi-tip or the MS? Me go to rod in most situations is the Sage 9140-4. There is not much I cant do with that rod. Started out with the RIO WC line on it and it worked fairly well. But I ordered the WC/Accelerator ugrade tip for this line and I will probably never go back the the standard WC. This seems to really bring the 9140 to life. I also own a couple of loops for smaller rods and a back-up rod. They are great rods and I have no complaints whatsoever with the loop rods. Good Luck and Tight Lines.

 

[beau purvis]

10151-4

i have the original 10151-4.i would only use it for a big river spring chinook trip. even then i probably would use my 8-9 wieght a lot of the time.i have a 9140-4. mine is an old version and softer than 10 wieght. but i think the first rod should be pretty soft. i think it helps you to learn how to let the rod work. a rod you cant force helps you learn the speed, the underhand,the right amount of pressure,etc.i learned on a 10150-4 and i switched to a softer rod and my technique took off.same thing happened with my teenage son. Beau

 

[Rick J]

I fish the Klamath and Trinity alot. If you fish the lower Sac for trout or steelhead and the Feather for steelhead then I would go to a much lighter rod for all the above waters. If you are after salmon as some have said then the rod you have is ok.

I have been using the Scott 1287 (12'8" for 7 wt) to fish the Klamath and Trinity - it is a wonderful fishing tool - you can still feel the half #'s on it though nothing like a single handed 4 to 6 wt. This rod can handle short and long casts and sink tips with smallish flies. If as someone suggested on the N Umpqua in a separate post you stuck to muddlers and skating flies this rod would also work up there. You would be hard pressed to handle big and/or heavily weighted flies with it.

If you can wait, and can make it to the spey clave as suggested you could really get a better understanding of what you might want. I think you need at least two rods to handle most situations (unless you are Fred!!!) The 10 wt would be a great heavy rod for winter stuff, big flies and heavy sinking lines. But for what you do mostly I think you would best be served with a second lighter rod.

 

[flytyer]

I agree with what Fred reommended. The 10151 is probably too much rod for the waters you are going to fish. I think Fred is right on about the Sage 9150 being a rod that you would be very happy with. It is a lot faster than the 9140-4 (my first 2-hander and one that I have not cast for 4 years because it is so slow that it makes you work harder than you should to cast 70 or so feet. This is especially noticed when using sink tips). Keep in mind that it is more difficult to learn how to cast well with a slow rod than with a medium-fast rod like the Sage 9150.

Yes, I know that there are a lot of people and a lot of shop owners and employees who recommend that you get the 9140-4 as your first 2-hander; however, it is such a slow rod that it takes a lot of arm and rod movement to cast. And its slowness hides casting flaws because you have to make such large movements with the rod and your arms that if the fly is not placed properly, the extra movement naturally moves the fly into a better casting position. This is bad because you then learn bad habbits and when you should be able to make casts over 80 feet with or without sink tips, you will not be able to do so.

The quicker Sage 9150 is a longer and stronger rod than the 14 footers. The 15 foot rods are actually easier to cast than the shorter rods simple because they provide you with more leverage and make it easier to move the line for forming the "D" loop.

The shop where your fiancee bought the 10151 should simply exchange it for the Sage 9150, possible with a little cash left over.

The MidSpey with interchangeable tips is a very good choice. The 65 foot belly of the MidSpey causes a person to learn proper technique for spey casting because it is 10 feet longer than the Windcutter. Also, the MidSpey is the line I got for my 15 year old with his first 2-hander last May on his birthday because it is such a nice line to cast.

If you opt for the Sage 9150 (as Fred and I suggested), you should get the MidSpey 8/9. Yes, I am aware that there are going to be people who say that you should get the MidSpey 9/10 or Windcutter 9/10/11 for the 9150; however, these lines slightly overload the rod, which slows it down considerably. However, there is really no need to do this. And you are already using faster action single handers so you will be right at home with the faster 2-handers like the Sage 9150 that has an 8/9 MidSpey on it.

If you look at Loop, I wuld go with the green rods. They are faster than the other Loop 2-handers and I like them a lot more than the other Loops. I owuld definitely avoid the Loop black rods because they are rather slow action rods.

I have a strong preference for T&T or G.Loomis GLX rods because they are nice fast yet progressive rods. But just because I like them doesn't mean you should go out and buy one. Since your local shop carried Sage I would simply exchange the 10151 for the 9150 and be done with it.

By the way, don't let this lady get away! If fact, maybe you can get her to fly fish with you.

 

[Andre D]

what about an 8124-3

Sorry , I don't mean to change my direction, but...I just found out that the shop has a clearance on an new older Sage 8124-3/ I believe this was a faster action rod, I wonder if this would be a decent rod to use around here and still serve me when i go to bigger water? I did a search, but nothing really came up?

thanks

Andre

 

[flytyer]

The 8124-3 is a faster European action rod that cast a 6/7/8 Windcutter very well. I have cast a friends many times since he purchased it some 6 years ago. It does not like the MidSpey line very well, though it will cast it. The problem is the length of the rod is only 12'4", which means that moving the 65 foot belly of the MidSpey requires you to move your arms up above your shoulders on every cast to get a good "D" loop. The 6/7/8 Windcutter is a delight on this rod. And with the 6/7/8 Windcutter with interchangeable tips, it casts the sink tips as will as the floating tip as far as you will want to fish.

I've got to be honest with you though and say that this friend doesn't use his Sage 8124-3 very much since he purchased a Sage 9150-4 3 years ago. The 9150-4 is a far more versitile rod and has far better line lifting and line control than the 8124-3. That said, if you chose to get the 8124-3, it will serve you well provided you get the 6/7/8 Windcutter to go with it.

 

[fredaevans]

Hay! Hay Rick cool your jets! I'm into delecate negotiations for a Burkie.

If you can wait, and can make it to the spey clave as suggested you could really get a better understanding of what you might want. I think you need at least two rods to handle most situations (unless you are Fred!!!)

You could screw up a good deal. :>) So when are you getting your self up here for some winter run fishing?

:devil:

 

[Greg Pavlov]

Andre

While you have received lots of good advice about rod choices, in your shoes, I don't think I'd be too quick to replace or supplant a rod bought my SO, even if it isn't quite appropriate to the local waters.


That was the first thing that went through my mind
as well. This is probably the best advice yet, which
is not take away from the knowledgeable opinions
already given.

 

[Andre D]

Thanks guys

As far as my SO is concerned, she wants me to have something that I will use. She even told me that if I wanted to trade it in for a nicer single handed 5wt, I could. She know that I will use that allot. But I do want to keep a spey rod and learn how to use it, so I am going to get on that I can use better. I know she really doesn't care, I have thanked her enough for the one I got. Besides, she know that I will be planning a trip somewhere that I can use it and she knows that she will get to come along. nOw if I can only decide which way to go..

Andre

 

[flytyer]

Andre,

Why not wait until after the San Mateo Sportsmans Show since it is only a short drive down the road from you. This is one of the biggest shows on the west coast and there should be 2-hand rods there by all the major manufacturers that you could try. If you want a few pointers on casting a 2-hander or on which rods would be best for you try at the show, I'm sure that Simon will be there at the RIO booth and that others such as Trey Combs and the guys at Sage, Redington, G. Loomis, Lamiglas, St. Croix, Orvis, Powell, and diamondback will be there with rods you can try.

Doing this would only delay your decision a few weeks and it would let you see for yourself the differences in rod actions that we have been talking aobut herein. Take your SO with you, she'll enjoy the show too.

 

[Rick J]

Good advise from Flytyer - many of the same folks are also at the Sacramento show a couple of weeks earlier. Only trouble with the Sac and San Mateo show is there are few places set up to really attempt spey casts. The casting ponds set up are narrow and crowded. I expect I will be at both of the shows and would be interested in meeting you and talking about options if you are interested. We can trade Klamath and Trinity as well as lower Sac stories!!

Best regards,
Rick J

 

[Andre D]

9150

Fred & flytier

Which Sage 9150 are you referring to. Is there a difference in the blank color. I have found a green colored one that the delaer still has which I am considereing getting.

Andre

 

[flytyer]

Andre,

That is the one I was speaking about.