[Norseman]

Good day to the Clave......I am just in the process of buying my first Spey rod and reel....An Orvis Trident 12'6" 8/9 weight rod and a Battenkill Large Arbour VI......I am new to Spey, however have been fly fishing now for in excess of 30 yrs.....I am what I would call a somewhat proficient caster and can easily throw a single hander 9/10 weight line about 70 feet....incl sink tips and loop on sinking heads......O should mention that I am planning on using 35lb. Gelspun for backing. I am planning on a floater for the first line......any recommendations are much appreciated.

Should I buy a floater or should I go with a multi tip set up....I have made up my own tips before for the Dean and had no problems...wondering if I should save my money and pass on the multi tip and make my own with the straight floater?

Sorry carried away with the questions...so much to learn ,so little time.

Thanks and best regards......Jake

 

[Grampa Spey]

Norseman, Jake

You may have a balance problem with that BKLA VI reel which is heavier than the rod without the backing and line. You might be better off with the BKLA V, and it is on sale now. The BKLA VI weighs 9 and 7/8 ounces without backing or line. The BKLA V weighs 7 1/2 ounces which is closer to the weight of the rod you want.

I have a BKLA V and it is a great reel with incredible pickup speed. It will hold about 200 yards of the spun gel backing and WC 678 or the MS 6/7 Floating line. It is too light for my Sage 7141 and balances my Sage 7136 perfectly.

 

[Norseman]

Grandpa Spey

Thanks for the response.....will the BKLA V hold an 8/9 midspey with enough backing?

 

[Grampa Spey]

Norseman

I have no idea how much 8-9 line the BkLA V will hold and how much backing. Don't waste your time calling Orvis, their experts are really Spey deficient and probably could spell RIO if you gave them 2 out 3 letters.

If you have a good Orvis shop close by, they can help you.

There is a classic problem of balancing these shorter/lighter rods in the heavier line, ie, 8 or 9 weight with a reel of the same weight.

If I could cast as good as you can with a one handed rod, my first Spey rod would be at least a 14' rod. The Orvis Trident 9 weight, 14' rod weighs 10 ounces. So the BkLA VI with line and backing would balance out.

If you really want a short two handed rod in an 7/8, drop Bob Meiser one of our sponsors an email. He makes a two handed switch rod, a 10' 6" 7/8. I own one and love it for smaller waters and semi combat fishing. You could probably be making overhand casts up to 90' in your first hour on the water. His ads appear in banners above these pages just click his ad with your mouse pointer when it is showing.

 

[Norseman]

Again thanks for the advise...now you have me rethinking my rod and reel choice....I really wanted to stay with the 8 Wt setup...I am primarily fishing the Columbia river in the West Kootenays where typical spring fish will range upwards of 6 lbs...however they can reach the teens....I dont want to out gun myself with a
9/10 on smaller fish...the ones in the teens are very few and far between.

O well half the fun of picking out a new rig is the choosing....thanks again

Best regards.....Jake

 

[Grampa Spey]

Norseman, Jake

You might want to consider the new Ibis 8/9 weight by Winston. It is now on the market. The rod is 14 feet long and is said to be a fast action rod.

FlyFishUSA has a write up on these new rods in their latest news letter.

A few weeks ago in the Rod section of the clave, I posted the question why doesn't any major manufacture make a real 8 weight rod that is at least 14 feet long. There are a lot of fishers like you and I who would like to see that rod on the market. You might want to back track to that post.

The Sage 7141 with the MS 7/8 with interchangeable tips should handle your fishing needs quite well. I have a 7141, and it is a great rod.

 

[Norseman]

Funny I was just reading that

and said to myself....wasnt someone posting the other week looking for just that sort of set up.....see.....build it and they will come.......hehehe

regards....Jake

 

[Grampa Spey]

Norseman, Jake

Here is a possibility of an entry rod that might fit your criteria. The rod is being sold by Chrome4life on our for sale page:

I have no idea what he is asking for it:

"12'4 Cabela's Double Hand Spey Rod


Never touched, Still in rod tube. Cork plastic still on. Life-time warranty, It weighs 8.5ozs and is a quick/moderate action. The 12'4" 8/9-wt. is the perfect length for fishing small to medium rivers and offers plenty of power for long casts. This double-hand rod is so lightweight it casts like a single-hand rod, making fly control extremely easy. I bought this rod for $210. Great Rod, for the new spey roder. Email me at [email protected] for questions.

 

[Norseman]

Grampa Spey...I called Orvis today and asked what amount of backing I could get on the BKLA 6.with a spey line....If I could have seen who I was talking to I am sure they would have looked at me like I had three eyes....spey line???? the girl passed me off to an expert in the fly dept....he advised that I should get about 225 yds of line with a 8/9....I said yes that would be correct with a conventional line..however I was going to be spooling it with an 8/9 Mid spey...he then advised me that I might get 125 yds of 30 lb. dacron.....at any rate I have a line on the loop product and am going to reconsider both the rod and the reel....Loop is an expert manufacturer in the development and matching of spey equip....I think I would rather go that route than spend the money on a mismatch...I was originally leaning towards the loop anyway.

thanks again...talk to you soon

best regards.....Paul

 

[Greg Pavlov]

I would be very skeptical about Orvis's capacity claims for the Battenkill large arbors. Orvis took back two IV's from me, plus spare spools, because the claimed capacity was a good 30 - 35 percent off. Orvis eventually changed its capacity table for the series, but I suspect that there are a lot of reels in stores out there with booklets with the old capacity numbers. And the new ones are still overstated, tho probably no more than some other manufacturers. And the Orvis people on the call-in line tend to be very nice but in most cases not very experienced.

 

[Grampa Spey]

Norseman

That sounds about like my experience with the Orvis people when I bought their BKLA V and with an extra spool for my Sage 7136. I had them ship 200 yards of their micro backing for each spool. My WC 678 with a tip needed about 20 yards of backing whacked off. My MS 6/7 needed about 30 yards whacked and still is tight when all off it is wrapped on the reel. Where I fish, that much backing is enough. 6 and 7 # fish never get into the backing with all of that Rio running line.

The BKLA's are great reels, but Orvis is an east coast company and they don't understand Spey lines and West Coast Steelhead and Salmon fishing. Last year I bought a Sage 10151 for Salmon fishing, and I was advised to forget about the BKLA VI because of the lack of backing when connected to a Rio Accelerator 9/10. I bought the Loop 4. It took 300 yards of gelcast 30# and the Accelerator and had room left on the spool.

If Orvis wants to get a reasonable share of the Spey Reel market with their BKLA V and VI, they need to design spools that will take at least 200 yards of 30# backing for their V and 300 yards for their VI or develop Spey versions of these reels with large backing capacity. They need to form some type of alliance with Rio and have Simon/Jim/? help them develop spools or reels that can handle adequate backing for the Rio Spey lines.

 

[Norseman]

Greg and Grampa

Again thanks for your input ..after having dealt with Orvis a couple of times now over the phone I would have to agree with your comments....very nice, and polite as the dickens, but lacking a bit on the knowledge of spey.... through no fault of the customer service people, just a poor understanding of how a 15 lb Thompson fish can sizzle line off at an astounding rate.

I was looking at the Loop blue line and the Loop 3W originally and I think that is what I will opt for....It was what I had my heart set on at any rate.

So the question still remains.....is the Midspey 8/9 a good choice for a beginning spey caster? I would rate myself as an accomplished single hand caster ( for reference)

Best regards.....Paul

 

[t_richerzhagen]

Midspey and Beginners

Norseman,

I Think you will really like the midspey. It is long enough that it will keep you from learning some bad habits, if you ever want to go to a long line like the XLT. It also handles tips well, and you do not have to shoot line unless you are fishing a big river like the Deschutes, or Snake.

 

[Greg Pavlov]

So the question still remains.....is the Midspey 8/9 a good choice for a beginning spey caster? I would rate myself as an accomplished single hand caster ( for reference)


Hey, for a Viking like you, no problemo.

I don't cast flyrods very well and my single spey cast is
barely distinguishable from random arm-waving, but I found
the Midspey to be just about as easy to handle as the Windcutter. I was running a tad lighter, tho, 6/7 and 6/7/8

 

[Norseman]

Greg and Ted

Thanks for the advise on the lines....I have heard so many things about different lines/ weights and heads that I didnt know where to start...and at $85 bucks Canadian for Spey lines I am not in a position to be determining which line I use by hit and miss techniques..

Best Regards.....Jake

 

[Grampa Spey]

Norseman, Midspey and Beginners

I started with the WC 678 with tips and was having problems with it and my 7136. Later I found out that few speyers can cast a tip with the 7136.

On the advice of Bob Pauli, I bought Simon's video International Spey Casting and spent a lot of evenings watching just his section on the double spey. Simon does a great job.

Then on the advice of another Speyer, I bought the M/S 6/7 floating line with no tips.

The M/S 6/7 floating line using Simon's method of Double Spey worked for me with my 7136. When I stepped up to the 7141 to be able to use sinking tips, on the advice of the local Sage rep, I used the 6/7 M/S floating line. The 7141 and the M/S 6/7 is a great combination.

Using Simon's techiques and building on my use of the MS 6/7, I was able to cast reasonably well with an Accelerator 9/10 with my new 10151.

Now, I have the new MS 7/8 with tips to try for winter steelhead and shad this summer with my 7141. I'm sure that it will work well. This summer except for Shad fishing, I will probably return to just the MS 6/7 floating line as my main line. It is basically effortless to cast as a dry line or to lob an indicator 50 to 60 feet up stream and nympth fish with it. I will experiment with the Aqualux tip or the new compensator as basic long leaders with a few feet of tippet at the end for the fly. They will be used when I want to get a little below the water while using Caddis emergers or some other emerger fly.

Start with a MS floating line that is appropriate for whatever rod you get. Get the video I mentioned above and just focus on Simon's double spey and get it down. You will not need the WC as a learning spey line.