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Discussion Starter #1
Apparently salmon numbers in New Brunswick on the decline again…

I lived there (endeavoured) for 3 years…it's a fecund site of resource removal by the Irving family robber barons (of course they live off shore to escape taxes)…while the underclass suffer the highest rates of illiteracy, drug and alcohol abuse in the country.

Wasn’t too long ago they halted spraying defoliants such as agents orange, white and purple, as well as pesticides that obliterated almost all aquatic life in the province...
What a sh!t hole…and a travesty of mismanagement of what is otherwise a beautiful province.

Read it and weep fellas...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...lmon-numbers-hit-record-low-in-2014-1.2768766
 

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It's true
Such a shame ,
 

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Buddy canceled his trip this year because of those numbers...
 

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I just had a wonderful week in New Brunswick on the Miramichi, the 6th week I was there this year. Landed 4 salmon myself, and my lovely partner had seven fish tighten her line. Hooked four fish also the week I fished in July.

The outfitters are getting clobbered by the internet. While I was there this past week, a pair of "sports" cancelled their trip (equating to $5400) to the outfitter I use (www.bullockslodge.com) because of what they read on the internet. I landed a fish the day they cancelled.

One thing is for sure, and I've said it before, if you're sitting in front of your computer reading reports and cancelling reservations, you are definitely not going to hook salmon. If your fly ain't in the water....

Whatever happened to hardcore salmon anglers? I've been chasing them for 20 years, and had many weeks over those years where I never ticked a fish. So what? Fishing ain't all about catching.
Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Don't bait and switch on the thread man...happy you enjoyed the many things an outing on the Mir has to offer...
However you miss the point...
 

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Chase, with a PhD in wildlife ecology, trust me, I didn't miss the point.
But there are two topics within your original post, in my opinion: First and foremost, what certain practices are doing to the watershed, but second, and if your livelihood depends on that watershed, likely as important, what those reports are doing to their ability to make a living. Many who read them only want to know about the fishing, and are not likely to speak out about those practices. They just cancel reservations. Many of the outfitters on that river are among the most ardent conservationists I know, and, like myself, are on the board of the Miramichi Salmon Association and other groups, working to try and keep the watershed in one piece.
It's a tough fight.
Gary
Oh, and Heero, just for the record, I enjoyed incredible firefly displays back in the early summer. And witnessed one of the most incredible mayfly hatches I've ever seen. Don't know about frogs, though.
 

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I feel for the outfitters that are suffering now, and I fear they will suffer even more next year. A significant portion of this seasons return problems are likely due to ocean conditions (nutrients, forage, harvest, etc) - river returns everywhere were way down, even those with good management practices.

What I can't abide by is the practice of continuing to allow killing of any salmon (including grilse) in the face of these issues - Quebec I'm looking especially hard at you. Catch and release (of MSW fish only) wasn't instituted in Quebec until relatively late in the season, and after that happened, close to record numbers of grilse were bonked for the table on many rivers. C&R only applied to the southern rivers too. My buddy who fished an Ungava river this fall reported that despite record low runs, the outfitters whacked as many salmon as possible. Right now, we need every salmon possible in the rivers spawning, including grilse.
So far I'm not seeing signs that mandatory MSW C&R will happen next season in Quebec :Eyecrazy:
 

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Not to get off topic but if you are booking a trip with guarantees in your mind, you are missing the point. If you are stressing cause you aint catching, you are missing the point.

I've had tuff weeks guiding where I've contemplated packing it in and thoughts of "WTF am I doing out here?" have run through my head, but, my clients were happy. To be honest, I've never had a client who got skunked, complain. They have all said, "that's fishing". Maybe Ive been lucky with the people I have had? I dunno.

If its all about the numbers, save your money and go to your local trout farm.....
 

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seaterspey
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I for one have never had the opportunity to A. salmon fish but I sure wish I could. I have many a times when I fish the North Umpqua where my guide will tell me that the fish count is way down, I don't care. The only reason for me to cancel a trip is if the river is blown out, PERIOD! I have been skunked with a guide the last two times I have fished the Ump, still had a great time.

This is kind of off subject but the biggest problem for me at least has been the cost of a A. salmon trip! They are damn expensive! But that being said if I had the money I would go and spend the money in a heart beat.

And BRAVO on C&R!!!!!! 100% on your side.

Somebody take me please!!:hihi:
 

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I feel for the outfitters that are suffering now, and I fear they will suffer even more next year. A significant portion of this seasons return problems are likely due to ocean conditions (nutrients, forage, harvest, etc) - river returns everywhere were way down, even those with good management practices.

What I can't abide by is the practice of continuing to allow killing of any salmon (including grilse) in the face of these issues - Quebec I'm looking especially hard at you. Catch and release (of MSW fish only) wasn't instituted in Quebec until relatively late in the season, and after that happened, close to record numbers of grilse were bonked for the table on many rivers. C&R only applied to the southern rivers too. My buddy who fished an Ungava river this fall reported that despite record low runs, the outfitters whacked as many salmon as possible. Right now, we need every salmon possible in the rivers spawning, including grilse.
So far I'm not seeing signs that mandatory MSW C&R will happen next season in Quebec :Eyecrazy:
The easiest change we can make starts in ourselves. I'm always baffled when I see the "I want my cake and eat it too" attitude among salmon anglers. On one hand, we're quick to point the finger at Greenlanders, Fish Farms, the native fishery, and god knows what else, yet we (and we're always quick to pronounce ourlves river guardians and the species' best friend) are still out there killing fish!

It truly amazes me how we, as a collective, can't get this through our thick skulls. There's been a diownward trend in returns for decades now and we could make a small contribution (i.e. stop killing salmon, grilse included), but we can't even manage to do that.....

If we want to clean up the neighbourhood, we should start in our own backyard.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The easiest change we can make starts in ourselves. I'm always baffled when I see the "I want my cake and eat it too" attitude among salmon anglers. On one hand, we're quick to point the finger at Greenlanders, Fish Farms, the native fishery, and god knows what else, yet we (and we're always quick to pronounce ourlves river guardians and the species' best friend) are still out there killing fish!

It truly amazes me how we, as a collective, can't get this through our thick skulls. There's been a diownward trend in returns for decades now and we could make a small contribution (i.e. stop killing salmon, grilse included), but we can't even manage to do that.....

If we want to clean up the neighbourhood, we should start in our own backyard.
YESSIR!!!

Extraordinary that the apologists come running...
It's an undeniably sublime watershed the MIR...ironically those "custodians"(sounding the warning klaxon) have their rods marked with tape to ensure a "legal" catch to take home...more often than not grilse. Baffles the mind really...
 

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Spey Is The Way
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I know nothing about other rivers, but on the Main SW Miramichi the grilse are around 95% male. To me that's like shooting a few male wild turkeys. Once it's all hook and release PETA will move in and tell us we really don't have to be fishing and the locals born on the river will be so pissed they will net it empty.
Chase, glad you had to leave.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Don't you worry Leo...you fine gents just carry on...
You've been doing such a fine job of it thus far...

And by the way...the "us" and "them outsiders" thing in NB is getting really old...
 

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Don't you worry Leo...you fine gents just carry on...
You've been doing such a fine job of it thus far...

And by the way...the "us" and "them outsiders" thing in NB is getting really old...
Amen. The Greenlanders don't care whether or not other nations are harvesting males or females, grilse or msw fish. They just see it as tons of fish that they should also be entitled to harvest. Continue to blame everyone else and help contribute to the domino effect.
 

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The easiest change we can make starts in ourselves. I'm always baffled when I see the "I want my cake and eat it too" attitude among salmon anglers. On one hand, we're quick to point the finger at Greenlanders, Fish Farms, the native fishery, and god knows what else, yet we (and we're always quick to pronounce ourlves river guardians and the species' best friend) are still out there killing fish!

It truly amazes me how we, as a collective, can't get this through our thick skulls. There's been a diownward trend in returns for decades now and we could make a small contribution (i.e. stop killing salmon, grilse included), but we can't even manage to do that.....

If we want to clean up the neighbourhood, we should start in our own backyard.
Exactly!!! Well said
 

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There is some very flawed data being shared this year.
I have also had several successful trips to the river. And I'm not alone.

Please don't piss on my home province and tell me I don't care about sustainability.
 
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