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Discussion Starter #1
I have went on two consecutive trips to Cape Cod and have found that my two-handed rod has worked great for catching Stripers. I can say with certainty that I have caught stripers using flies in locations and situations that I couldn't before I started using the rod.
My two-handed rod (St.Croix) casts so well that I don't even think about it anymore when using it.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Cool! I've been doing it since 1995 when I moved from steelhead country to striper country. Just completed developing a two-hander specifically for coastal flyfishing with CND, production shipment emminent.

What length / weight do you prefer?

I was out this morning. Despite a stiff breeze I had the backing knot out with every cast, single backcast. I am currently looking into 120' running lines for use with shooting head systems, preferably slicing blind to eliminate any loops to clunk thru the guides.
 

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Biggsttriper, which St. Croix are you talking about ?


Juro, I heard that the initial rod is an 11' 11 wt.
Will this be it for a while, or do you folks plan to
release something on the lighter side as well ?
 

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Juro,

Also, is that the Atlantis that Dennis is hoping to get delivered to him. I've been trying to meet his UPS truck at his shop in hopes that I may get a peak at this sacred item before he takes off on vacation. Actually, "meet the UPS truck" isn't what I have in mind. If you could give me a day for delivery, I'll start running all brown trucks off the road until I find that rod.

Matt
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Matt -

I truly believe we hit it on the head with that rod. The IM8 Specialist graphite and hardcore ocean hardware and grip configuration are amazingly light and the rod loads very comfortably yet throws with complete authority. I can tell by the way people are able to get to the backing knot with an off-the-shelf tarpon line with ease. It's been a long road with much investment on Nobuo's behalf from the mandrel to the fit and finish and I have been working hard to do my part in specifications, extensive field testing and making sure it's truly fit for the application. He knows the science from decades of rod design, and I know the application. It is made from the ground up to serve the coastal angler on the seven seas with two-hands on the job.

Dennis' adventures in the carribe with that rod should be nothing short of amazing, mostly because his adventures always seem to turn out that way but also because this rod is tailor made for big surf, big flies and big fish. His input has already been influential in our last design modification and I am chompin' at the bit to hear the results and see the images and video upon his return.

Greg -

We have four models on the drawing board, this one is the first to the finish line. The next is the 1099 (10'9" 9/10wt) which is in the same class as the common striper setups - 9/10wt intermediates and 325-350 grain sinking lines. We have two prototypes behind us and are working toward a final ASAP. It's very close, the prototype already has some fans. The finished 1099 prototype genII rod only weighs 7 oz as it is, but yet throws the Teeny 350 with ease. We are working to complete this as quickly as possible, hopefully the third time will be the charm.

There is also a Searun, a lighter model that targets searun cutthroat and smaller resident coho in Puget Sound and British Columbia coastal waters. We may be closer than we think on that rod with the existing Tracker series, a single/double hand combination rod popularized in Japan by CND.

The fourth is... well we will be talking about it soon enough. Sorry, but I can't publicize it for competitive reasons at this point.

Let me just say this about the 1111... I am very picky about two-handed rods in saltwater, hence the persistence despite the dead-end trials of this pursuit since 1995. The 1111 is it IMHO. Don't let the AFTMA line rating scare you (11/12wt == a mere 318-392 grains) it feels much lighter than one would expect, like casting an 8/9/10 spey as an analogy. Yet with one backcast an entire tarpon line is on the water and there is no fish in the surfline that I would not want to battle with this rod, and I would not feel undergunned.

I would present this challenge... pick up any 11/12wt rod, single hand or double hand, and then pick up the Atlantis 1111. The difference is immediately evident in weight, power, and comfort of flex in the painfully refined taper design. Then put a common factory line on it, say a tarpon intermediate, and cast the whole thing. With one of the rods, it will be easy to do all day long and you can concentrate on getting a bigger pull on the other end of the line (it can handle it).

Throw in a gusty crosswind coming onto your casting side. The single hander is casting backwards, not a good approach in high surf. The common 11/12 spey rods are too much rod, and not generating a high-speed line. The agile beach rod is either casting across the body like a frisbee flick or casting lefty (not very hard with a two-hander overhand) and with a little tuning-in to the stroke the backing knot is in the strip guide again.

Like big poppers? No problem, just put a beefy bug taper and throw that megabanger. There's nothing like surface action!

Fishing a big girl rip? The upside is big fish sit in them between the humps and ridges, the downside is your cast doesn't last very long in the fast swing. If you could pick up a 45 foot high-density head, one back cast and get it out 100' in about 3-4 seconds, you increase your fishing to casting ratio in favor of the fishing.

Just sitting on a beach, it takes about 3-3.5 seconds to throw 100-120' over the waves. While fishing an intermediate line with a baitfish pattern, it takes about 30 seconds to retrieve the fly for the next cast. THATS 10:1 fishing over casting! Standing out of the waves comfortably as well.

Anyway, I didn't mean to run off at the mouth but it's been a real trip getting this rod to market and with Nobuo's mastery of the art and science of two-handed fly rods I can't help but get a little excited!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Greg Pavlov said:
Biggsttriper, which St. Croix are you talking about ?


Juro, I heard that the initial rod is an 11' 11 wt.
Will this be it for a while, or do you folks plan to
release something on the lighter side as well ?
I'm using the 15 ft. 10/11 rod with a 10 wt. wt. forward floating line.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm tying up some 2/0 purple/black Lefty's Deceivers this week to use maybe this weekend. I have been using smaller hooks.
One of the main advantages in using this rod is that I was having problems hooking weeds on my backcasts, but since this rod is so long, I no longer have that problem.
 

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Juro re the 1111

This sounds really great. Since we do most of our striper fishing here in California in the Sacramento Delta, have you tried that rod on like a 20 to 25' boat?

The ability to stand on edge of the ocean and fish without serious and dangerous wading sounds great.

For about two-three years I have heard scuttle butt/rumors that some fairly big name fishers on the west coast and in Hawaii have been trying various two handed rods in the ocean and coastal area. They started with big rods and have come down in size to rods about 10 to 11 feet with two handles or one long handle enabling the fisher to use both hands. I wonder if they have been trying Nobuo's rods? They have been very secretitive about their trials.

When do you expect these rods and how much will they cost?
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Grampa Spey,

Thanks for the info, in fact I would love to talk to these guys if you could PM me any info to reach them. I'd like to go do the rip curl with those bad boyz in Hawaii dudes! Wouldn't that be a kick. Realistically, I would love to share experiences with them, which by your deslcription led to the same conclusions.

The 10'9" or 11' Atlantis rods are really not bad for use on a boat for a number of reasons:

- can be cast for distance easily off either shoulder
- really not much longer than a 9' 6" when you are stripping
- much shorter than spey rods, much different action
- you only need one backcast to reach fishing distance w/ practice
- you can throw bigger flies without fatigue
- you can use conventional rod holders
- easier to fight big fish

Although the 1111 was not intended for use on boats, no reason why the overhand casting taper and short get-down-to-business design wouldn't be a great thing to have on board when some nasty gamefish pop up around you.

Just as the spin guys prefer to use shorter spin rods from the boat than from the shore, same goes for fly rods in that the length not critical on a boat. But if you have a big casting deck, big fish and flies, wind, and the need to cast quick it would be a big advantage.

Well-known northeast striper guys I've polled feel it would be a fine boat rod in it's current configuration. I guess it really depends on whether you need to gun fast and far for fish that can really battle or not.

I'd use it for tarpon, wahoo, trevally, or any big game fish over a single hander any day of the week from a boat. Let's go try it in Hawaii!

First model 1111 11ft 11/12wt 3pc 8oz. IM8 titanium tip / SiC fuji guides premium cork - $495 USD ; 1099 and 1077 are expected to be less, TBD.
 

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Everyone knows I am the world's biggest proponent of two-handed fly rods rom the beach-I love the damn things.

From a boat though, unless you have a physical problem that prevents normal one-handed casting, I see no advantage to 2-handed fly casting until you get up to 14-weights or larger.

I also think that if you promote 10 and 11-foot rods built of high-modulus graphite for skiff fishing, you better ship them each with a spare tip.

Snap!
 

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2HandTheSalt

My oldest son who is now more into fly fishing for stripers in the California Delta and whatever down in Cabo agrees with you.

We just had this discussion this afternoon. None of his rods are over 9'. He will be buying some two handed fighting rods 12 weight and up. He will try to buy 8' 6" rods in that category for trips to Cabo.

Having said that, I have a bad shoulder and can't shoot a single handed rod. So I will be going out with him on his boat with Bob Meiser's 9/10 10'6 rod in a couple of weeks for stripers.
 

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Grampa spey, Meiser has by far the best selection of rods for anyone with a shoulder problem. Be patient and I am sure you will find some that you like.
 

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2HandTheSalt re Bob Meiser's rods

I have three of Bob's two handed 10' 6" switch rods, and I love all three of them, his 5/6, 7/8, 9/10. His rods and my three Sage Spey Rods have enabled me to continue fly fishing after a fairly serious injury to my right shoulder about 3 years ago.

Now the question is how well will Bob 9/10 do on my son's Striped Bass Boat fishing for stripers.. I think that it will do okay, and my son has his doubts. . I know that it can cast the lines/flies with no problem. What will it do with stripers over 10#'s from my son's boat? We will find out in a few weeks.
 

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Very interesting stuff ...I do love two handed rods...Regardless if in the sweet or the salt.... From the beach, bank or boat.

Jay...From a craft, the diverse advantage of two hands goes way beyond the angler having "physical problems" ...You and I have talked about this several times.

... Although I must agree that I have built many two handed rods for salt water anglers that for one reason or another have been physically burdened by the traditional single hand double haul delivery...

But for several years, I and others have been designing and bulding two handed rods for both fresh and salt water boat anglers that are in prime physical condition...Guys that simply put: Realize the two handed advantage...albeit not alta terra firma !

These are two handed boat rods 6 wt. to 15 wt... from 8'6" to 13'... For anglers pursuing everything from Smallmouth bass to Small Bills.

To generalize... I would have to agree that the boat angler pursuing large, high burst speed gamefish (especially salt water gamefish) will demand primarily a "lifting tool" that casts efficiently in diverse conditions.

For the logical angler, these finny beasts would eliminate most thin walled, extreme modulus rods... And status quo logic would also determine that the rod be 10' or under.

BUT...There are many gamefish that do not require these meaty sticks: Bones, Permit, Reds, Stripers, Dorado, Roosters Pike, Musky, etc. etc. etc.

These critters can all be quite effectivly pursued from any floating platform with a properly designed two handed rod, balanced lines, and creative deliveries...And all to the casters great advantage.

And... If one were to throw ALL status quo logic to the wind ?!

Why not combine the two elements: Two handed rods designed with extreme lift potential...Say 9'9" to 10'9" rods.

Made to deliver shooting head systems extreme distances utilizing two handed overhead deliveries...Shot from the deck... Or roll-aerialized from a water haul.

There are rods out there that will do this... Hey...I've got several in my own series, and it sounds like Juro is working on a sweet series of 10' plus rods for these applications as well....I say right-on to that !

We as anglers can only benefit from creative angling tools such as these... Our minds should always be kept open to enhance their advancement, as they can only add joy and effective diversity to our sport.

Bob Meiser
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Jay -

You two-handed geek you :D I should talk. hehe

Seriously... throw Nick from Hunter's in and we have a bit of a NE three musketeers thing going. He and I have been talking about this lately and in fact he and I both agree two-handed rods on boats do provide advantages provided the length is reasonable. Key issue until recently.

For example, when the wind blows on open water one end of the boat is peachy but the other is in a crosswind. If the odd man out was using the right rod, he'd be casting as far as the strong side caster if he had the right tool for the job, and with very little effort over his weak shoulder.

Once again, provided the rod was not comparable to the boat in length, it's a major advantage IMHO.

Bob,

I should've known you've produced all kinds of rods suited to these tasks, I'd love to cast 'em all! Good points you mentioned about the diversity of each rod design for it's purpose, although one rod might be best constructed one way, another is designed completely differently even in the same series.

Good discussion!

2HandTheSalt said:
Everyone knows I am the world's biggest proponent of two-handed fly rods rom the beach-I love the damn things.

From a boat though, unless you have a physical problem that prevents normal one-handed casting, I see no advantage to 2-handed fly casting until you get up to 14-weights or larger.

I also think that if you promote 10 and 11-foot rods built of high-modulus graphite for skiff fishing, you better ship them each with a spare tip.

Snap!
 

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Bob Meiser/Juro

I get the feeling that we are on the edge of some big and positive breakthroughs with the two handed rods on and in the salt water from Bob, CND, ?.

I wonder how many similiar discussions surfaced when the Spey Rods first started their current rerun in the NW and over other parts of America.

As a "senior citizen" with a bad shoulder, if I want to fish out where the big fish are in the salt and the Deltas, I welcome the new rods! Bring them to the market and let us try them and find out where they work and don't work.
 

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peter-s-c re the Geezer Market

I think that there is definitely a Geezer Market for Bob Meiser's two handed rods, CND and ?. Orvis the great copy cat now has a steelhead rod that is very much like Bob's two handed switch rods. I predict that Sage, T&T and Loomis will trend this way.

Besides Geezers, we will see today's one handed casters of steel suffer repetitive and severe new injures to their shoulders, elbows, wrists and arms due their pure power casts of shooting heads and one handed lines. They are trending to the stiffer and stiffer rods with faster action. They will get by with these pure power casts until their late 30's to mid 40's. The smart ones will come to the two handed rods.

When they see peers of their same ages making effortless two handed casts as long or as long as their pure power casts, the smart ones will come over to our side.

I know of a couple guys with severe neck problems and after watching them cast with their pure power one handed styles, it is a wonder they haven't become cripples.

With my puny right shoulder, I would not be able to fish with a one handed rod with the exception roll casts and lob casts.
Bob Meiser's two hand switch rods have made those roll casts and lobs into effective casts. Then, add the double spey and snake roll, and I step into another world with Bob's switch rods. I have not mastered the turbo spey or under handed cast yet. When that happens, these rods will be even more fun and effective to use.

Last but not least with the two handed rods and Spey rods, we don't have to wade as far out into the water. That makes the fishing less tiresome and safer.

As I posted earlier, "We live in a great time with these great two handed Rod makers/designers like Bob Meiser and the gentleman who designs the CND rods. Both are fishermen, and they know how to make rods for the rest of us. "
 

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Re: Re: Bob Meiser/Juro

peter-s-c said:
Frankly, I think this is the next big market, Geezer Rods for people like me who are no longer in the best of shape. The Boomers are aging but don't want to give up their sports so that means redesigning the tools for aging arms and shoulders. ....
I think that I've said this here before, but two and a half years ago when we were at the Toronto ff show, I got to talk to reps at 3 manufacturers' exhibits and layed out the same demographics scenario, tho from the point of view of saltwater fishing and the heavier rods and (often) heavier water involved. I didn't get one positive response. And one rep told me flat out that there just wasn't a market for 2-handed overhead casting rods. To me it seemed like a no-brainer; my first saltwater rod was a custom 2-hander.


By the way, Peter, the Daiwa 8 wt is a 10 footer which, with the extension handle, ends up about 10' 5" long. I was casting 9 wt intermediate and 10 wt floatin shooting heads with it. After a while I found myself casting it one-handed most of the time, switching to two when I'd start feeling twinges in my shoulder.
 

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Greg, Peter...

Way to go you guys...Get those little two-handers ripping.

They'll open up whole new vista's in your fly fishing experience..Truely music to my ears !

Really the secret to the small two handed rod is finding the lines that will effectivly, and efficiently put them to work.

It was'nt that long ago that the only way one could get lines to make these little cannons perform was to build your own...Same was true of Spey lines actually.

When I first put the 106 series together, Rio had a great series of Scan shooting heads available... Maybe 4 or 5 years ago ?

These lines really loaded up the 106s perfectly, and one could do all kinds of cool things with them...

I used to cut back 15 ft. on these lines and loop the Windcutter Spey sinking tips to them. Presented and fished especially well as overhead and single hand Spey lines for both still and moving hydraulics.

These were 40 ft. looped, tapered, shooting heads from 6 wt to 12 wt...Starting at around 225 grains and going to 650 or so ?

Still got a several of these that John and Simon sent me years ago....

Then alas...Rio decided to stop marketing these lines in the USA.

It was with great joy that I see that the folks at Rio have reincarnated this great series of lines... All our requests seem to have payed off !

Also find it interesting that these lines cut back to 38 ft. do perfrom most efficiently with the 10'6' rod on the overhead....Tapers and grain distribution must be quite similar to the old shooting head looped lines.

Anyways as Juro said this is a great discussion...Viva La Dos Manos !!!

Bob Meiser
 
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