[Grampa Spey]

I spent about 5 hours on the Russian yesterday testing the 8/9, 9/10 and 10/11 with my Sage 10151 and even my beloved Sage 7141 with the 8/9.

The river is still high, and where I could cast, there was a high 6' to 7' bank directly behind me preventing much of a D loop. Also, I could only wade out about 5-6 feet before the water was over my head. All of my casting was with river right and my terrible imitation of Simon's graceful Double Spey. This was made worse with the high bank and being able to wade out about 5-6 feet.

This may have had a negative impact on the Grandspeys. The 9/10 did not work at all for me it never loaded the 10151 properly and was a real pussy in my hands with any wind. So it was returned to its box fairly quick.

The 10/11 worked better and was less wind impacted. I could get out 70 to 80' casts if I paid attention to every little detail, the wind, the current and the mechanics of my terrible Double Spey casting. I was somewhat disappointed in the distance. Because in the same spot this Tuesday, I was getting as far with my Mid Spey floating and tips with my Sage 7141 with a lot less energy and effort for each cast.

Then, I tried the 8/9 and was getting some good distance without much more effort than casting my 7141. I was casting 80 to 90' on 50% of my casts.

So, I decided to try the Grandspey 8/9 on my 7141. After a couple of practice casts, I was heaving it out about 10' to 15' further than my Sage 10151 and with a lot less effort at a distance of 95 to 100'. Twice I touched the opposite shore with casts. One time a drift boat was upstream waiting to come through when this happened. The guide asked if I was using a 30 06. This happened about 4 hours after hurling the heavy lines and the heavier and bulkier 10151. I'm sure that I can do better without the heavy lifting and just going directly to the 7141 with the Grandspey 8/9 when I'm fresh and my shoulders are fresh.

Then, I replaced the leader with the MS Sink Tip compensator about a foot of tippet with a heavy fly, this is the best kept secret in Rio's great line. I was able to get 70 to 80 feet casts without a lot more effort than with the M/S and the same trick. The wind was really gusting around and except when it would change directions and blew directly in my face, had minimal effect on most casts. The GrandSpey 8/9 with the MS tip compensator, a foot of tippet and a heavy fly worked very well with my 7141.

If I can keep the 8/9 for another week or so, I want to try it with my Sage 7141 and all of my sinking tips from my MS 7/8 pack on the Yuba.

Conclusion: I'm not man enough nor good enough to use the Grand Spey's 9/10 or 9/10. I kept remembering Jim Vincent's comment of how tiring the Grandspey was for him versus the MidSpey here on this board. I agree with him.

The good surprise was how well the GrandSpey 8/9 worked with my Sage 7141. It might be a great line to have on a spare spool when the fish move out further in the water on the Yuba, Lower Sac or Deschutes during the mid day or during the high water summers as Herr Davis has the water pouring out for electricity since we have no new generators in California.

The mending capability of the Grand Speys is incredible. You can mend about as much as you can cast. On shorter casts, you can do a roll cast as per John Judy's loose line mends and dump a load of line on top of the line tip. They are the best mending lines that Rio has made. I'm sure that the better casters can mend 80 to 100 ' with a single and basically effortless mend.

Two other observations about the two bigger GrandSpeys:

1. There may have been some contact with some chemical in previous tests. Both lines really sank a lot. Also, there were about 1 foot sections that would sink and the next section would float and the next section would sink and for the length of the line in the water. It was really weird. The 8/9 or my MS 7/8 line did not do this. A fellow, who was watching me said that it looked like oil was beading off of these lines. Then I noticed the same after each cast.

2. The lines are really reel users. My loop 4 with 300 yards of the minimal diameter backing really did not hold the two larger sizes. So I had about the length of the rod plus a couple of feet not on the reel. ( I didn't want to cut my backing). The 8/9 was a tight fit. This Loop 4 and 300 yards of small size backing holds my AC 9/10 with no problem and any tips plus 15' of leader. It holds my new MS7/8 with any size leader or tip with no problem.

I want to thank Rio and Simon for arranging the tests of these lines. My reports to Simon will be mailed this weekend.

Thanks to Fred for setting up the schedule and getting a little more gray hair from some of us.

 

[fredaevans]

Thanks to Fred for setting up the schedule and getting a little more gray hair from s



I also found the GrandSpey's to be a mixed bag vis a vis the 5 or 6 rods that I ran the different sized lines. Most combinations were not to my liking. One SIGNIFICANT exception to this was the 9/10 on my Sage 9154.

Repeating myself here from an earlier post but this rod-line combination was "The Hammer of Thor." Absolutley nothing this rod-line combo would not do beautifuly. This included using a 3-4 foot 25# mono butt section, looping on both Airflo and RIO sinking leaders (my strong fav. vs. the use of tips) couple of foot of leader material to the fly.

The 'grains' in this line shot all this stuff out like it came out of the mouth of a cannon. With the high floating (they floated fine then;sounds like the lines need cleaning!!!), mended like crazy even with the Extra Fast 7- 12 sinking leaders off the front.

fae

 

[flytyer]

I've posted before several time about how much I like the 10/11 GrandSpey on my 1611 T&T. I also very much like the 8/9 GrandSpey on the T&T 1509 and theWinston Derek Brown 8/9. And the 9/10 GrandSpey I find to be terrific on any of the 15 ft 10 weights I have cast it on.

Fred, I like the 8/9 GrandSpey with the Sage 9150 probably because I prefer faster rods.

And the GrandSpey requires good technique or the line just dies and you end up working your butt off to even get to 60 or 70 ft. Like you, Grandpa Spey, I really like the mending ability of this line. And it is very nice to be able to avoid stripping line before making a new cast most of the time as well.

They are reel capacity eaters though. Nor are they for everyone or for the 13 foot and shorter rods either. In fact, I don't really like them on the 14 foot rods. However, give a 15 foot or longer rod that is rated for a 9 weight or higher and it becomes my line of choice.

 

[Grampa Spey]

"The Hammer of Thor."

Your success with the GrandSpey 9/10 and your Sage 9154 is
probably why the 9/10 didn't load my 10151 that well and the combination really didn't feel that good to me. Good thing that I tried the trial 9/10 as that was what I would have bought.

I have the feeling that I that the 8/9 Grandspey could become a Hammer of Thor with my Sage 7141. It would be nice to have a spare spool with this 8/9 GS when the fish decide to move out past 75' during the middle hours of the day. It is not necessary up to that distance with my new MS 7/8 on my Sage 7141, and as Jim Vincent noted the MS is a heck of a lot less tiring to cast for hours versus any Grand Spey.

Who is next on the list, and do they want the 8/9 GS. If they don't want the 8/9, I would like to try it on the Yuba when those Skawla stones start laying eggs at 80 to 90'!

 

[fredaevans]

This is the original list but it's 'jiggled around' a bit over time.

With appoligies to a couple of you (doing this on the office lap top) Blank In The Brain on a couple of your Board names.

Steve: The 8/9 and 10/11 are in an Airborne bag to you now. I'll be running the 9/10 through its "paces" this afternoon and tomorrow morning. Third line out to you this week.
fae

GrandSpey Distribution list.

RIO LINE QUESTIONAIRES ARE INCLUDED WITH THE LINES! PLEASE COMPLETE THESE AND FAX/MAIL DIRECTLY TO SIMON AT RIO! (Address/fax # is on the bottom of the sheet) Most important we do this. After all, it's through his generosity, we're getting exposure to their new product line. fae

Name/Address Lines requested Lines/Date sent. (well, this didn't line up too well on transfer.)
8/9 9/10/10/11
All lines
Steven Perakis
2911 NW Mulkey Ave
Corvallis, OR 97330
Aka “Locoalto”
541 602 2707

All lines
David Marston
22080 S. Leslie Ave
Beavercreek, OR 97004
Aka ?
Phone # not available

All lines
Jack Kowalski
1360 Creek Drive
Gardnerville, NV 89410
Aka “Nevada Caster”
All lines
Leroy Teeple
4204 S E Covell Street
Milwaukee, OR 97222
Aka speyrd
503 659 8094

9/10
Dave Anderson
3 Oak Grove Way
Napa, CA 94559
Aka “Our “Kali Guy.”
Phone # not available


All lines
Brian Yates
2235 SW 28th Street
Redmond, OR 97756
Aka “tight lines” :> )
541 923 8550

8/9 and 9/10
John Barrena
C/O State Farm Insurance
Claims Service Office
2950 E Street, Suite A
Eureka, CA 95501
Aka “Speynut”
707 269 4444

8/9 AND 9/10 per post
Bill Kessler
2200 Spencer Hill Road
Corning, NY 14830
aka “Wrke”
607 962 6402

8/9
Jim Sanderson
786 E. Robinwood Lane
Fresno, CA 93710
No phone # in e mail.

All lines-- NEW ADDRESS 1-6-2003
Jim Jones
3971 W. ORANGE AVE.
ANAHEIM, CA 92805
APT 181
714-821-8812
714 743 7854 – cell
aka “ JDJones”




Last on list as Henry will drop the lines back off with Simon at RIO

All lines
Henry O’Keefe
P O Box 70
Eden, Utah 84310
Aka ?
Phone # not in e mail

 

[Grampa Spey]

Flyter and your remarks re the Grand Spey

Flytyer posted"

"The GrandSpey requires good technique or the line just dies and you end up working your butt off to even get to 60 or 70 ft. "

Since I can get 55 to 70' with my Sage 7141 and the MS 7/8 without working my butt off, I don't need the Grand Spey for most of my fishing. When the fish move out past that distance during the midday to get away from fishers, then the GS 8/9 might be worthwhile.

"Like you, Grandpa Spey, I really like the mending ability of this line. And it is very nice to be able to avoid stripping line before making a new cast most of the time as well. "

I could not believe how well the GS mends. The first time I mended, I did the entire line that was out on one mend. Then if the line was reasonably close in the slot, I put a ton of line on top with a John Judy stack mend.

"They are reel capacity eaters though."

The weight of the reels needed to hold 300 yards of backing and the GS lines (reel weight plus backing weight plus uncast GS line weight) could become a problem of balancing the outfit.

Casting the Grand Spey might be like driving a well tuned high perfomance racing vehicle versus the standard vehicle or Spey line.

If you make one little error or the wind changes on you in mid cast, you are in the ditch or with a hooked ear or nose. I get a little absent minded while enjoying the scenery, the river, and all that God lloans to us while fishing to be on top of every cast. Nor do I want to work my butt off to get a 60 to 70 foot cast. Rio's new Mid Spey could become a Mindless Spey for me which is great for me.

Last Tuesday I had better than a half of a day of mindless, basically effortless and very enjoyable casting with my 7136 and my new MS with the tip compensator and the various sinking tips. I only had a few blown casts and that was due to not compensating for wind changes. I have no desire to work my butt off on every cast and beat each cast re distance with my next cast.

 

[flytyer]

Peter-s-c,

I use 15 ft tips with my 10/11 GrandSpey and it will cast them as far as you'll ever want to cast (well over 100 ft). Casting at 60 to 80 ft with them is fine due to the line's design. I find the GrandSpey casts well from 50 ft on out as far as I wish to cast.

This line also turns over tips with ease. I carry and fish the following sink tips on my 10/11 GrandSpey: RIO type 3, RIO type 6, RIO type 8 all are 15 foot 11 weight tips . I also carry a 14 1/2 ft piece of 550 gr. Deep Water Express and an 11 1/2 ft piece of 700 gr. Deep Water Express. I have to tell you though that I now prefer the RIO type 8 to the 550 gr. Deep Water Express because it is tapered and casts nicer while having about the same sink rate.

The GrandSpey along with the XLT is a very long belly line. The 10/11 GrandSpey is 100 ft before you get to the running line. thus, it requires long line techniques such as Derek Brown's to be able to move that much line and aerialize it. And it shoot like crazy once you get into the back taper. It very easily pulls out the running line and allows casts of 120+ if you have done your job correctly and moved and placed the 90 or so ft of belly properly.

Grandpa Spey,

When you learn how to move and place the GrandSpey's very long belly, this line does not require you wo work all that hard provided it is with a 15 ft or longer rod. On 14 ft rods, as you have already found out, you have to work pretty hard all the time to cast out beyond 70 ft. I prefer the MidSpey on the 13 and 14 foot rods and the GrandSpey on 15 foot and longer rods.

 

[Grampa Spey]

Flytyer

FT Posted to me:

"When you learn how to move and place the GrandSpey's very long belly, this line does not require you to work all that hard provided it is with a 15 ft or longer rod. "

Actually it was with my Sage 10151 that I had the problems with the Grandspeys. The GS 9/10 would not load the rod until I had so much line out that I could not handle it.

The GS 10/11 did load the road, but I was expending a lot more effort to get the same distance or a little less than two days before with my MS 7/8.

Should you be striping and shooting some of the GS line on your casts?


"On 14 ft rods, as you have already found out, you have to work pretty hard all the time to cast out beyond 70 ft. I prefer the MidSpey on the 13 and 14 foot rods and the GrandSpey on 15 foot and longer rods."

Actually the most pleasant surprise was the GS 8/9 with my Sage 7141 which is not supposed to be even considered. With 15' of leader and a big fly, it was humming on most casts out 10 to 15' further than I could get with my MS 7/8 and Sage 7141.

Then, at the end of the day, I put my new MS sink tip compensator on as the leader with 3 foot of 8# FC and a heavy size 4 fly with chain link eyes on the business end of the GW 8/9.

Most of my casts with this heavier business end and fly were in the same distance ball park of the GS 8/9 with a 15' floating leader.

The down side is what I and others have posted, you have to be right on top of every cast with any GS or you have a busted cast or a hook zooming by you. Also, for me it is more tiring to cast the GS as Jim Vincent noted last year on this board.

The up side, the GS 8/9 might be a great as Fred calls it a Hammer of Thor when the fish decide to move out into the 70-90' range to get away from the normal spey casters and one handed zoomers. I could see having the GS 8/9 on a spare spool for those instances.

Thanks for your expert input .

 

[Willie Gunn]

Flytier,
Have you cut your Grand Speys or just put the tip at the end?
If you cut them at what length did you cut?

Malcolm

 

[Dave Drennan]

Grampspey -

Wind kicked our fannies yesterday on the Yuba - Skwala's never showed, hiding in the rocks, but a few #14 PMD's did show - still not much surface activity. In short, we got skunked!

 

[Grampa Spey]

Dave Drennan

Wind kicked our fannies yesterday on the Yuba - Skwala's never showed, hiding in the rocks, but a few #14 PMD's did show - still not much surface activity. In short, we got skunked!

Was it that terrible upstream wind that you can get on the Yuba?

Besides putting your body in peril of becoming a walking fly display model, that high wind just seems to turn on the OFF switch on the Yuba, the American and the Russian for the fish.

On the Russian this past Tuesday at about 3 pm, fish started to roll, I had a couple of strikes and so did a couple of roe fishers. That wind came up at about 3:15 and even the bite for the roe fishers stopped. We all folded up our tents about 3:45 and left.

 

[Dave Drennan]

Yuba wind

Downstream wind in the morning, wind took a 20 minute break after noon, then started upstream! Afternoon was the worst! Gonna hit it again this week. And Dave at Sycamore Ranch knows we're coming!

 

[jimsand]

I'm up for the Yuba next weekend. Hopefully Dave will not have caught all the fish by then. Here it might rain, so I'll bring my rain tent and gear.

Finally got a grand spey and teamed it with a new rod I got this week. A Sage 10161-4 with a GS 10/11. I think I have some practice to do before I get the timing down on the rod. Longer and heavier than what I'm used to. Thant being said, I think a 9/10 might be a better line for the rod. The 10/11 seemed a bit heavy. Maybe it's my inexperience with the rod itself. It cast well and without too much effort on short to medium range casts 60 to 100 feet hand to fly. Beyond that it became a chore with more line out past the tip.


I found a fairly happy length to cast about 75' of fly line out past the tip. Single speys and spiral rolls went out without a problem. I was able to shoot a fair amount of line but nothing to write home about. I think my best casts were about 140', but there was no consistency doing that.

About the most I could maintain and cast with my single speys and spiral rolls was with about 80' of fly line out past the tip. At that range I wan't able to shoot very much. I felt I was working too hard and it tired me out quickly.



On a different note, after flailing away with the 10 weight for a couple of hours, I picked up my 7141 7 wt. I have one of the 7/8 XLTs currently on that rod. It was a pleasure to cast in comparison. Putting about 85' of fly line out past the tip and maintaining good consistency with the spiral rolls and single speys was effortless in comparison to the 10 weight.

Jims

 

[fredaevans]

PLEASE NOTE: Small correction to JD Jones address above.

I've included his apartment #181.
fae

 

[flytyer]

Willie Gunn,

I cut the GrandSpey 16 feet from the tip. I did this because there is a 6 inch level tip and a 15 foot backtaper, therefore, it was easier to just cut it at 16 feet than measuring 15 1/2 feet. To this I loop either the floating tip section I cut off the line or an 11 weight sinktip. This combination just sings when you place the fly in the proper place with a good "D" loop, regardless of the sink rate of the sinktip.

Grandpa Spey,

I don't like the 10/11 GrandSpey on the Sage 10151, the rod feels overloaded to me with the 10/11. I much prefer the 9/10 GrandSpey on the 10151; but keep in mind that I like a fast action rod and the 10/11 slows down the 10151 too much for me.

Likewise, I would not use the 8/9 GrandSpey on the 7141. In fact, I only like the 7141 with the 6/7 GrandSpey or long Delta. The 8/9 lines overload this rod for me very badly.

Yes, moving 75 feet or more of GrandSpey belly takes some getting used to; but I feel the rewards are worth the effort of learning how to do so consistently.

To answer your other question about stripping and shooting some of the GrandSpey: Yes, you can do this. However, one of the reasons I like this line so much is precisely because I do not have to strip any line at all if the cast is under 90 feet.

I have a very strong suspician that the MidSpey is a better line for you and the way you like to feel a rod bend under a casting load. And the MidSpey is an easy line to shoot for those occassional 80 foot or so casts you may wish to make.

 

[Grampa Spey]

Willie Gunn

Thanks for the feedback.

Your method of cutting the Grand Spey or any floating spey line is simple and gives you a Spey line to use your present sinking tips without the extra investment. What a great suggestion.

I think with my old man casting style the MS 7/8 with tips or my old MS 6/7 floater will work for most of my casting needs.

I may consider the GS 8/9 floater and my old man's Hammer of Thor when I want to get out those extra feet. There have been times on the Yuba that I needed that extra distance.