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Discussion Starter #1
All the discussion below is very interesting and helpful. It also reminds me, however, that there are different ways to skin a cat, or to describe skinning one. I know that with one-handed casting, you can find lots of valid descriptions of very different casting styles (e.g., the clock vs. the Lefty method), all subject to a few important consistent principles (abrupt stop, for example). I've noticed the same thing with two-handed overhead. Here are some of the (at least superficially) differing or contradictory pieces of advice I've heard from different sources:

1) The key is to push/pull with upper and lower hands vs. the upper hand is only along for the ride and the lower hand performs the cast.

2) Very short stroke (11 to 1) vs. long stroke with straight rod path (a la Lefty).

3) Hold the upper grip high up on the handle vs. low or middle of the handle.

4) Trap the line with index+middle/middle+ring/ middle alone.

5) Sweep to the side a little on the backcast vs. straight back.

6) Only the head out of the tiptop vs. some overhang.

There are many more, but you get the point. I think the diversity of views is good and forces us to find what works for us individually. I guess in the end, the same principles that govern single handers should apply. I don't have the experience to know, but the discussion is helpful. Cast on !!!!!
 

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overhead

gee, i posted on that months back,no replys came thru,i've always felt it vital to practice overhead work with two-handers=best way to `shakedown' a rod/line combo i get in the pasture and go around in a circle all the while keeping the line airborn/changing direction,,,THAT is what i'm doing,practising the change of direction,the feel of the rod/tip/line combo,,this is how i was able to master the double haul with single handers :smile:
 

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no-yes

sounds like you DO know what you're talking about,,,i don't have any one absolute casting method,,i just go for it,,,so many differences in rods i'll use,plus lines,,,and areas where i'm able to overhead,,,as a matter of fact,i was told `doing those spey casts with long lines is the old english way,,we just do overhead with windcutters',,i got into two handers because of the ability to fish spots nobody could fish,,and i do,,overhead is just ,,well,,good practice,i reccomend it,, :)
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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1,771 Posts
Jazzman said:
1) The key is to push/pull with upper and lower hands vs. the upper hand is only along for the ride and the lower hand performs the cast.

2) Very short stroke (11 to 1) vs. long stroke with straight rod path (a la Lefty).

3) Hold the upper grip high up on the handle vs. low or middle of the handle.

4) Trap the line with index+middle/middle+ring/ middle alone.

5) Sweep to the side a little on the backcast vs. straight back.

6) Only the head out of the tiptop vs. some overhang.
IMHO... for what it's worth etc:

#1 - neither is "key"

Of course there is a push/pull, but it's possible to minimize the upper hand 'push' using the bottom hand as the engine and the top hand for steering. Usually this promotes a short stroke method, like a Scandinavian overhead cast if you will. This has it's applications but is certainly not the cast I use in the surf.

Or you can use a long-hand overhead throw, very smooth and effective. Both work fine provided you understand and use them each correctly.

#2 - Not mutually exclusive

It's possible to keep abrupt start-stop positioning while extending the stroke. This is something I am adamant about when teaching people how to cast the Atlantis.

BTW - I am developing a casting tutorial aimed specifically to this rod - if you are a warranty/registered Atlantis owner PM me and I will send you some pdf material on the topic. Also developing some flash animations for this purpose.

#3 - high on the handle

Holding the hands as comfortably apart as you can maximizes leverage on the device, which is usually longer than you are tall. It does not make sense to minimize this for overhead casting for beefy rods, although on really light gear choking up sometimes puts a little more deep load into the blank. But gear that light can not always provide advantages over single hand rods.

#4 - Whatever works

There is no panacea, and much of this has to do with the slickness of the running line. If you fare well with piching against the cork, that's best for you. If you like to weave the running line between the fingers, that's the ticket for you. Personally, I have migrated the holding of the line to the ring finger from the middle finger to improve my grip during the cast.

I used to make a middle finger, then lay the line under it, and close. Since the middle finger is a critical part of the vee grip, I switched to raising the ring finger, laying the line under, then close. This lets my middle finger remain grasped on the cork throughout the cast while keeping three fingers in contact with the running line.

Also - I always use the lower hand to hold the shooting line as well. I was shown this by Ally Gowans while he cast the Atlantis at Denver last year and the extra control offered by the bottom hand on the line is really advantageous when fishing in wet conditions.

#5 - Either way is fine

Whether one sweeps to the side or just off vertical is a matter of preference - BUT when fishing on the beaches around here a side swipe (Belgian style backcast) will plow your fly into the sand more often than the overhead style of backcast.

The Belgian style cast generates a tremendous tension in the line and really loads the rod, and is a natural motion for spey casters to adopt. It also allows a change of direction in a similar manner as the single spey (thanks Mel!) for overhead casting with two-hands.

#6 - Depends on the grains, taper to running line and smoothness of stroke

If the head is very heavy and the transition from running line radical, any overhang will cause a massive hinge effect. A long back taper or a very stout running line will reduce this hinge.

That being said, a very smooth caster can benefit from a little bit of overhang which adds a litttle juice to the last backcast before the final launch. With shooting heads this is about 5ft or so, depending on line. With factory lines having a back taper this can be as much as 15ft.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Mattzoid,

As far as giving freely, try a search on my posting history.

As far as packaging and selling, I would say that if you can't package it then it's not organized; if you can't sell it then it isn't worth much.

If it is of any value to you, I will trade you a private casting lesson for the retention of your CND sticker on the window. I am going to be in town later this month and if you can be available when I am free I would be happy to go through the stuff with you then.

peace,
Juro
 
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