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Discussion Starter #1
What techniques do you use to maximize the tension in those nice tight pointy v loops when using long belly lines, such as an XLT. I have been starting to work on a “flick” during the middle part of the backcast as the DLoop is forming. I think the idea is similar to the power snap in an overhead backcast. When this works correctly, I can feel the line tighten up as I drift the rod at the back at the end of the stroke and I can feel maximum tension in the line when I’m just about to hit the forward stroke. Unfortunately, this is difficult to achieve. I can't always do this to get the Maximum tension. Don't get me wrong, I am pretty happy with my overall casting, just always trying to improve my stroke. Any ideas or suggestions?

-Doug
 

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D-loop becomes triangle loop

To get a maximum amount of energie into your backloop you can look at the following points:

1) When making your 'backcast' try to make a straight slightly upgoing line line with you rod tip. As you would make a tight loop forward cast. The speed of your rod tip should excellarate into a solid back stop. Just befor you make this straight line movement do all the spey things you like to do ( change of direction, letting the belly of the line drop below to rod tip to get a pendellum movement. The idea is to archive a fast triangle shapen backloop at the END of a speymovement. So it is: start with snakerolls, t-snaps or whatever you want to do and then get the line into the triangle back loop. Don't mix the movements this will open up the D-loop en you will start to lose energy.
2) Make a SOLID stop at the end of the excelleration and keep your rod there. I know that backdrifting can add length to you forward stroke, but it also can take energy out of your cast. So be aware of that.
3) Make your final backmove with your bottom hand (apply power with the bottom hand) and use the upper hand for a smooth, nicely on line, movement.

I hope these points will help.
 

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"v" loop

Hi Doug, Use the same loading stroke as you use when doing an "two-handed" overhead cast. Tip the same stroke out to the side and keep the line under the rod tip to make a Spey cast. Finish as Ullsock has said.
Keeping the rod flat out to your side will help also, Simon's book has a good inustration of this.
Hope to see you next month at Fred's.
Leroy.......................
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the reply Ullsock

This all makes sense. The item that interests me is #3. You mention applying power with your bottom hand. This is probably something that I have not paid much attention to. Can you explain in a little more detail how that power is applied? I will need to get out on the water to try this, but in my mind, I am thinking of this as the reverse of the forward stroke and bringing my bottom hand forward to apply this power.

Thanks again,
Doug
 

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Hi Doug

Simon and I were tinkering with this very sucessfuly a few weeks ago. We were trying to find a way to energize the D loop better. What I've been doing is putting a sharp little kick-out of the bottom hand right at the end of the rearward power application and just before the rod drift (worked great on the Solstice). This really shoots the D loop back just like the same motion in the forward stroke will crank that line out. You do need to be conscious of moving the arms outward and upward slightly as this is executed to keep your loop from trunking and moving in behind you. Do this a few times and just let the line land on the water and you'll be able to see the adjustments needed to keep the loop 180 degrees from the target. This will aid in getting the anchor closer to you (less line left on the water) and will put a better load into the rod so you don't have to put so much effort into the forward stroke. You should try this on your T&T 5 piece, the softer rod will help you better feel the rearward tug this puts on your rod.

Jim
 

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loading energy into rod with bottom hand

This to add to point # 3 of my earlier reply.

When you load a rod (bring energy into a rod blank) with a crisp movement of your bottom hand, you start a rolling wave of energy through the rod (blank) that you can guide (with movement of both under hand top hand, but primairily with top hand) into a direction and when making a proper stop you can transfer the energy out of the rod into the outrolling flyline.

The upper hand works here also as a turning point where, you try to bend the rod around. By moving in a crisp way the bottom hand over a short distance this fast controlled energy will be 'mutliplied' by the lenght of rod above the upper hand ( I know this is not an absolute mechanical truth, rod action has influence on it, but keeping this in mind gives you a good idea what is happening in the rodblank). So with a short crips bottom hand movement you will get an excelleration of power through the rod which you can guide and direct with you upper hand. One of the big points in 'underhand' casting.
 

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Doug, Check out Rio's ISC and watch when Simon does a double spey, just watch the bottom hand when he does the cast. Very subtle move.
Look at Leif Stavmo doing his overhand casting with a double hand rod, notice how much his bottom hand moves and when he does the "flick". A down side to this is a skipping anchor. To much bottom hand.
See you at Fred's
Leroy...................
 

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A follow up to one of Ullsock's comments. I don't think rod drift will rob energy if you have first STOPPED the rod. Once you have completed the "power application" you can drift with little impact to the back cast formation. What can happen is those that drift, don't stop completely first which will rob energy. No different than a single handed overhead backcast. Once you stop the rod you can drift back alot with no impact to the backcast. What the drift allows is a longer acceleration path on the forward cast.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
checked out the video

Leroy,
I did check out the Rio video last night and looked at Simon doing the double spey. I did see that subtle bottom hand movement during the flick. I can't wait to get out on the water to experiment a bit.

Thanks all who replied to this post.

-Doug
 

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max tension = max energy? or max distance?

Doug,

There is another thread posted by Spey Budda a couple of days ago. Take a look. Good description on how to format an effective spey casting.

good luck and see you on river.

Jim: are you someone's grandpa yet?

Simon Hsieh
 

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i-spey said:
Jim: are you someone's grandpa yet?

Baby arrived last sunday at 10:30 am. Have a look in the thread titled "Think she'll steal a few hearts?" under the "General" heading.
 

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How do you like your promotion?

Congratulations. So the little girl steals your fishing time first!!! So how do you feel to be a grandpa? The little thing really makes us smile does it?

Have fun with the baby, but don't forget about going out casting.

Simon
 
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