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Making Cane-Bamboo (and wood) Spey Rods ><((()>

17K views 136 replies 21 participants last post by  MHC 
#1 · (Edited)
This topic is for makers/builders of bamboo and wood spey rods, so guys: shop photos, rods you built, rod design thoughts etc. post away if you want in this topic.

I've been at the bamboo spey rod making thing for around a decade or so and I've made oddels of mistakes and learned/worked my way through them. And I'm still learning - new cane design knowledge, build tips and tricks. Finally after quite a few years the rods from my shop are casting not so bad. My rods are built for friends, family and myself. For me; its a hobby that is fascinating. Best advise I can give anyone considering a bamboo spey rod is to cast a rod of the same maker and model first. Bamboo spey rods can be designed and built to be as soft and slow as licorice or as stiff and fast as graphite and everything in between; so I say cast first buy later.

Hardest skills for makers to learn that takes so long to pickup on is: number one taper design, number two taper design , number three taper design and number four hollowing. Taper design is by far the more important of the four. Not so much public information out there on modern bamboo spey taper development or on hollowing and established makers may not be willing to share their designs.,... Get the taper wrong and the rod will not cast worth beans or not cast well for its intended purpose. Hollow the rod wrong and it will lack durability and will break. Get both right and its a winner IMO. If you are into solid built cane spey rods thats cool too.

First rod to show is a 13' 8/9 weight, medium speed, moderately hollow rod now owned by a buddy. It is back in my shop for the addition of a second tip and to repair a smashed snake guide. I took it to the river this morning to test cast with the new second tip and think I should have kept it. But I missed my design goal of a 13' rod that excels at lifting/rotating/sweeping with the utmost control into the D loop with 50 foot and longer lines (she was almost there!); so she had to go. Still a fine rod for shorter lines up to around 40 feet and up to around 600 grains and she gets mucho care and outings from the current owner. So other than meeting the design goal 100%, what else can I ask for.
Wood Material property Cylinder Metal Pipe



Wood Cylinder Grass Nickel Pipe

Wood Tool Cylinder Metal Pipe

Plant Wood Grass Musical instrument Garden tool


Wood Drawer Wood stain Hardwood Varnish


Wood Wood stain Art Hardwood Musical instrument

BTW here is the wall of shame, this rack contains bamboo rod sections that did not make the quality/build cut or meet the design goal. Now and then one of these sections depending on its original line weight and taper gets used for testing a design/taper idea ... or perhaps kindling :-(

Wood Material property Hardwood Wood stain Boats and boating--Equipment and supplies







To Be Continued
 
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#66 ·
since i've only made one rod , my opinion won't count for much . i used unibond first time through . so far ... so good . i will add as a testimonial to unibond 's strength .... i purchased a 15' playfair vibration from england on ebay . it looked to be in mint condition , and it was except for a small split/crack in the lower splice of the second section . i cleaned out and opened up the crack a bit . then i used the unibond to fill it in . workin' like a charm and a testament to unibond's strength .
 
#68 · (Edited)
This has been a fun project to work on- starting a 3/4wt. trout rod to suit the little (1894) Hardy Hercules reel- its 'sprung' foot requires special fittings.
I have long had a soft spot for the 'Universal Winch Fitting', invented by one Dr. Emil Weeger and first used by Hardy's in 1883 (typo. corrected). Impossible to find- I made my own pocket and tapered ring.
If it all works out, have plans for similar, though larger fittings.

Two sliding rings are never a good idea on fly rods of any size, on wood or cork. In use, they inevitably become loose, plus the reel tends to shift around the handle- no such issues with a Weeger..

Malcolm
 

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#70 ·
wow so my Hardy Gold medal rod serial number 206 which was dated and confirmed by the Hardy rod Co as being the oldest split cane Hardy in existence. And it was made in the early 1880s and it has the W universal fitting on it. Malcolm Your dates might be a bit off!! How about this picture? The rod was identified by John Shaner and
Andy Mills View attachment 427027
Very cool pic Jeff - Thank You for clarifying.
 
#71 · (Edited)
1883 it was, I mis-typed information from page 105 of James Hardy's book- 'The House the Hardy Brothers Built' 2006.

Also noted in the book ('rods made'), along with the Gold Medal first made in 1883, the split bamboo Perfection rod was also produced that same year. So, if an 1883 Perfection turns up, there will be two 'earliest' rods. Out of interest, both models were made up to late 1960's early 1970's.
I am sure there remain one or two 1883 Hardy rods still out there.

Malcolm
 
#74 ·
the oldest known gold medal split cane rod by Hardy circa 1882-1883-1884

until another appears the one in the Gnomes Traveling Rod Show is the oldest known hardy split cane known to exist and as a bit of a curious aside what about the 1873 patent on the W fittings and what does it apply to??? very unique old rod and it is one from the collection that fits into the "evil 20" group. They are a group of rods that cover 1 decade each starting in 1800 and they include such notable names as Phinn and Eaton and Copeham and Conroy (including C B&M C&B and Thomas J Conroy) and Scribner and Dalzell and Hiram Leonard And John Krider a castle Connel rod Allcocks and KOSMIC and the Hardy Gold medal serial #206 along with 5 others representing 1 rod from each decade starting in 1800 and going through to 2000 and this group of rods have all been cast by me :cool: what an experience to cast rods covering 2 centuries. This along with restoring some truly unique rods like 2 of the less than 10 known to exist Thaddeus Norris rods or a couple of rods by Onesimus Ustonson does give me a unique view of the art and craft of rod making. Knowledge backed by deep experience. Cheers from da cave
 
#73 · (Edited)
Yep, Dr Emil Weeger of Brunn, now Brno, in the Czech Republic. The original fitting consisted of two wedge- shaped rings on the rod handle, one fixed and the other loose; the reel was slotted into the fixed ring and then the loose one was drawn over the other end until was tight and held the reel firm.
See attached illustration, plus photo of a "W" gleaned from a broken greenheart rod, which inspired mine.
Note the patent date of 1873. It appears that William Hardy took over the patent in 1880.
The dark Rosewood end button is original.
It's important to note, the Universal fitting design does not attach by screwing the pocket to the bamboo blank alone (through cork if used) this would be hit or miss at best and probably damage the blank.
Wood under the corks, is required.

Malcolm
 

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#75 · (Edited)
Even though he had access to his firms original production records- maybe James Hardy made a mistake with his 1883 date.. I am not really interested in debating the point, as this is a place for discussion on making rods- as set up by Wayne.
I do recall, however, much and similar 'insisting' over on Clarke's forum.
As far as the Weeger patent goes, this is all I have on the matter.

Malcolm
 

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#77 ·
Jim

I have made a few strip built wooden rods from Yellow Heart and Greenheart and purple heart all have been fun to fish and different critters compared to most rods of the same size and weight. Have always thought about milling out a snakewood log for a rod but not brave enough to do that one. And in response to MHC I disagree 100% with his comment that dual slide bands should never be used, if the seat is made properly and the bands are made properly they will hold just fine and that comes from building rods with single and double slide bands for 40 years or so. My swiveling hood is a modern take on the W fitting and the slide band I use with it is not a normal slide band in the fact it is oval and not round and it is a figure 8/hour glass shape and not just square /round in its manufacture. hardware made by a fanatic and the swiveling hood when made right will fit any reel foot out there due to its ability to adjust to angle and taper and length a unique reel seat set up that will be poo pooed by some but those who have it swear by it and when the reel is mounted properly it will not drop a reel PERIOD so blanket statements are a way to fire up the gnome. Not all rods have to be made to the bound by tradition 1950 view of a fishing rod, that is way too limiting for me and it is I feel a deadweight around the art and crafts neck holding it back from advancing, Very sad but true IMHO

Heretic gnome
 
#79 ·
MHC I am curious about your experience? how many years and how many rods have you made?? simple questions!! And why the comment about contentious as always?? when a maker makes a blanket statement like dual slide bands are never a good idea and My experience shows me a completely different view I am going to speak out about it. Not enough detail to determine the wood and with the hardy lockfast ferrules that date the rod to well after the first introduction of split cane rods at a much earlier date than that ferrule system. I don't guess that is the realm of the 2-3 rod per year expert.

Iconoclast gnome
 
#80 · (Edited)
The rod (featured) resides, last time I saw it, in the Hardy Museum in Alnwick, The picture posted comes from their 1978 catalogue.
Somewhere I have an old 'video' of the inhabitants of the museum, where a small description of the rod featured.
Early though the rod appears, it was probably a one- off 'presentation' rod, I noticed it had been restored (since 1979), possibly by Callum Gladstone, while he was still at Hardy's.
The 'Studlock' joints on the rod, came along in 1923, the rod being made after that date.
The handle wood is, more than likely- African Blackwood, which in colour is very dark brown, sometimes black. I have incorporated Blackwood into my rod making for many years as it is easy to turn into complex configurations, most importantly- it's very close grained and 'oily'.
'Once turned a small cone, measured it's diameter and dropped it into a glass of water where it sank like a stone.
24 hours later it 'swelled' (and I use the term advisedly) by the grand amount of .002"- which is the diameter of two human hairs. I consider it perfect for using on fishing rods. By comparison, the wood's close cousin Ebony, takes on water expanding to the tune of .020" after an hour or so.
Blackwood was commonly used for making bagpipes in Scotland (just over the border from Alnwick) also clarinets- both instruments requiring immunity from all of that moist blowing..
My earlier post -making a reel fitting to match the Hercules reel, is also of Blackwood- an extraordinary wood indeed, requiring no finish beyond wax polishing.

Malcolm
 
#82 ·
Cool stuff about that rod and the blackwood sounds very similar to snakewood . not a rod you would want to drop in the stream for sure! might sink fast!!! And if anyone is interested in the Gnomes swiveling hood design just let me know and I will do a post on how I make them. when used in conjunction with a longer reel seat barrel it will fit any foot made from the mid 1800's forward if you have a long enough slide section. Combine that with the hour glassed oval slide band and you have a very light weight reel seat system and when made with any of the strong light metals you end up with a seat that holds reel feet like a bulldog and a bone and is very light in weight.
 
#84 ·
I have heard of, but not worked with Snakewood- another appeal of Blackwood is how, well, dark it is.. I too would be interested in your (Jeff) reel fittings design post.
Some older (British) fly reels had not only longer feet, but 'sprung' feet- slightly bent along their length as previously mentioned. I have recently acquired a couple of Malloch examples.
Blackwood turns like hard wax on the lathe, but very sharp tools are required; it lets you know when you're doing it right..

Malcolm
 

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#86 · (Edited)
Three recently completed builds. Left- 12'3" 7 weight (insert wood is very reddish African Mahogany), Middle - 11' 6/7 weight (insert wood is baked Tiger Maple), Right - 12' 6" 7 weight (insert wood is Amboyna burl). Nice cork and interesting insert woods make me happy. It takes alot of time to find woods, turn, impregnate and finish inserts for the rods I make; but I enjoy the whole process immensely.
The work involves turning to size and then impregnating the insert. The insert gets soaked in a jar with a "soup" of acetone that contains dissolved crushed plexiglass. Impregnating like this can take a while, sometimes months depending on the wood; but once the insert starts to sink the impregnation is done. Some dense woods don't sink alot.

Liquid Wood Mason jar Drinkware Rectangle


Wood Tints and shades Writing implement Office supplies Metal
 
#87 ·
@waynev

Everytime you post in this thread I get excited :)
All this information you share is inspiring and intriguing. Really brings me to a place of understanding of how "personal" your rod builds are!!

Your wood work is outstanding ... love the hand selected wood pieces and the final product is impeccable :cool:

WOW!!


Mike
 
#89 · (Edited)
Recently completed 11' 6/7 weight headed northward to chase Great Lakes Steelhead on smaller Ontario rivers and streams, whippings are apricot orange tipped with egg plant purple. Lots of folks dig this main wrap color. If you don't want to hunt down the appropriate flavor of silk this color can be achieved with Pac Bay Old Gold nylon. Just keep the thread tension down and pack and burnish and it can look almost as good.

Wood Ingredient Solvent Table sugar Circle

Boats and boating--Equipment and supplies Wood Amber Orange Wood stain
 
#94 · (Edited)
Agreed.
Wayne has done a fine job. For the most part, transparent wraps suit daintier single handed trout rods, with thinner thread or silk. It's always a challenge to secure the larger lower guides as, due to their size, they can easily rock and work loose if not attached correctly- this from experience of attaching larger bridge/ cradle guides to all manner of double handed rods- such as the 10' MK IV carp rod below.

So far as choice of nylon/ polyester or silk, I find they all tend to look similar under varnish- although dark polyester tends to have a 'lustre' when the sun hits it- surprising that. Synthetics sit upright rather than flattening as silk does- 'finest silk' adds appeal though to potential customers..

Preserving thread colour I have not found difficult over the years- dilute jeweller's lacquer 50/ 50 with acetone applied with a toothpick, soaks any thread and fuses it to the finished blank securely, so the varnish just serves to fill the thread. Then the 'tent' of the feet require filling.

In the picture 'A' nylon on the feet, Gossamer black (step down) tipping, Gossamer brown silk intermediates (3 turns), each individually varnished with 4 coats using tiny 10/ 0 synthetic artist brush- which incidentally is every bit (for this purpose) as good as the 'finest Kolinsky sable'..

Malcolm

Metal Composite material Peach Wood Event
 
#95 · (Edited)
Originally designed and patented by one Dr. Emil Weeger, of Brno in the Czech Republic, and introduced into England by Hardys in 1883, the 'W' fitting would later develop into the tapered ring and pocket design.

Not commercially available, and with my small supply of similar fittings, salvaged from broken Hardy rods almost depleted, I decided to make my own, measured from an early example.

My 65 year old wood lathe with its 'compound slide rest' -tuned and fettled, following decades of abuse at a local college (to be up to the task) by top- notch reel maker Wayne Petrevan.

Having done little 'machining' since high school and most grateful for Wayne's technical assistance, I have now made several rings of sizes to fit small trout rods plus larger double handed spey style fly rods, for use on both wood (African Blackwood) and cork. The lower pocket was almost the trickiest to form due to its two angles- one for the reel foot, the other for the round handle or spacer.

The pocket must be screwed into wood under the cork, rather than the bamboo blank- which would not provide enough support plus be compromised by the four small screws.

Left to their own devices, the fittings will darken with age, or they can be dipped in 50/ 50 jewellers lacquer/ acetone.

Pity I had not lain in an earlier store of suitable brass however, the price having doubled since the Pandemic..

Malcolm
 

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#96 · (Edited)
This 10'9" headed to the Maritime provinces in Canada where the expert angler chases and catches many, many Atlantic Salmon. The angler had some special requirements for this rod: the taper centered around 400 grains load, extra large loop tiptops, hook keeper and extra weight in the rod butt so balance was better in hand with lighter reels. I was happy to fulfill these requirements; connecting with anglers and how they hunt their finned quarry with what tools is what rod building is all about IMO ... Rod building used to finance that cottage on a Steelhead or Salmon river ... that is not going to happen ... most rod builders I know just want to build great rods that meet requirements -> that is the challenge.

Hood Automotive tire Wood Asphalt Automotive exterior

Orange Wood Metal Fashion accessory Pattern

Amber Material property Wood Metal Auto part

Musical instrument Musical instrument accessory Tool Wood Writing implement

Wood Cork Cylinder Metal Auto part



As far as the whippings: apricot orange tipped with egg plant purple from Pac Bay Old Gold on ~11 footers. o_O Beautiful and I see those colors on those rods in my sleep now and the love affair is over (for the time being, LOL) o_O . Working on something longer and different.

Musical instrument Idiophone Wind instrument Drum Wood
 
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