Low holed

RPrice

· #21 · Oct 6, 2014

w.r. earl said:
The cost for B.C. residents is $25.00/day or 100/week.Boat cost 100.00 same as last year.We were there from Sept.6/14 until Oct.1/14 and did very well upstream of the reserve.Fished the reserve 2 days and caught fish there as well.
As per questions:
The Gitzsan Treaty Society has threatened to evict all sports fishers from the Skeena watershed.Will this be settled?
The courts are not clear who owns the river bottom.We all have licences from the Province to fish so why are we being charged to fish?The charge by the Kispiox Band should be to cross their land which they now legally own.
River access.The guides are trying to limit access to the Kispiox.They were behind the band putting in these large charges in the first place while they negotiated a very low seasonal rate for them selves.But they are now being charged a much higher rate and I understand it will be higher again next season.
But enough politics--lets enjoy the sport while we can!
Cheers.

+1, Thanks for clearing that up!! Some of the locals we ran into on the Kispiox quoted the rates to us (but they were not fishing).

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W

The primo camping spot LOL!!!

Funny story's.
I remember my buddy and I started at the top of this really long run nice head,gut-bucket(where the gear guys and pinners hang out)....and a absolutely beautiful long tailout-glide,that holds lots of fish,and most just skip on by it....anyway this morning we were there before anyone, moving through,then 2 center pin fisherman came down and parked in the gut of the run,the one fellow started fishing,the other was farting around with his set up on the bank.As I fished my way down through and got closer to these two fellows, the one fishing said to the one messing around with his gear..."you'd better hurry up or you're going to lose your spot"......I just looked back at my buddy and chuckled,as the guy on the bank scrambled to get in the water to.."hold his spot".....I said "relax I'm fishing on through,and am going to keep going down river,I'm not hanging around"....I couldn't keep a straight face while I said it,they were relieved to hear that no doubt...and probably somewhat perplexed...you know the shock.."you mean you're not going to grab a spot and fish it all day"..LOL....
....but that is the reality of fishing here people grab what they think is "THE" primo spot and stay there the whole time they are fishing...which is great that leaves the other primo swinging water open for us......
.....and, incidentally,that long tailout-glide fished very well for my buddy and I....that primo camping spot not so much!!!LOL!

WB.

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xgolfman

· #23 · Oct 6, 2014

Just practice your own set of rules with respect, patience and friendliness to everyone around you and you will be rewarded. Karma does work in fishing.

I like that Jim...gonna try and remember that...

I also wore a rubber band on my wrist the last 9 days and when I got pissed I snapped it and thought.."be grateful" Grateful that I was fishing a beautiful river and didn't have to go to work that day...Grateful I was doing something I love and not laying in a hospital dying of cancer...So much crap going on in our lives that doing something you love shouldn't get you angry...

OK, at least I'm trying that....still a work in progress!!

I'll tell you whats WAY WORSE then being low holed by a boat or another fisherman!!! Going back to work on Monday after your trip...God I'm dying here...
"Snap"

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middlecalf

· #24 · Oct 6, 2014

A couple of years ago a friend and I walked into a run that you can't see until you pop out of the woods at the river. Popped out and there were a couple of gear guys in the heart of the run. We didn't see their vehicle at the road nor a boat so didn't know anyone was in there. An "oops, didn't see you guys, how's the fishing been for you?" and they said "pretty good, picked up one here just a little while ago. You guys fly fishing?" (They obviously saw our long rods). "Yup". "Then go ahead and jump in above or below if you want." "Thanks guys, we'll do that." My friend briefly hooked up in the tailout.

Not all gearheads are ignorant of sharing a run.

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underachiever

· #25 · Oct 6, 2014

The most successful steelheaders I know, regardless of gear/fly, all acknowledge that covering water is one of the keys to finding fish. Covering the water and working downstream through a run is not some mystical enlightenment bestowed upon spey anglers. Getting low holed sucks but it I've had it happen with other fly anglers just as often as I've had it happen with gear folks.

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Wild Bill

· #26 · Oct 6, 2014

........."Grateful I was doing something I love and not laying in a hospital dying of cancer...So much crap going on in our lives that doing something you love shouldn't get you angry"...

...Yes I have come to this very conclusion......

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LCH

· #27 · Oct 6, 2014

yes Xman nailed it. Bad day on the river? Does that exist?

Larry

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Snagly

· #28 · Oct 6, 2014

Lots of good stuff in this thread. Question re the size of hole

Up at the top, there was some comment about the ethnicity of the low holers and another comment that this wasn't germane (or worse, was racist). I know quite a few of the locals who fish that stretch of water and most of them are of the view that non-tribal members are trespassers, and, even if you pay your 'trespass fee', you are still fishing their water. (Hard to argue with this, BTW.) So quite often they'll step in below to fish a run where they want to. The spey dudes in that crowd will cast-and-step, while the gear (or roe) chuckers often stay in one spot. It's part of the reservation experience. If you don't like it, don't fish there.

I fish more gear than fly, but unless the fly guys are being jerks (e.g. loud disparaging remarks about my gear choice when they arrive) then my friends and I will invite them to fish wherever they want in the run. It's certainly true that there are different lies and taking preferences, and gear guys can co-exist with fly guys (esp. the floating line/ sink tippers but even the dredgers unless they've waded into the run up their armpits to try to reach the far bank).

* * * * *

There have been a couple of questions still unanswered as to what constitutes "the" run. Let's take an absurd example. When the Skeena is below 2.5m (on the Usk gauge), some of the runs fish 500m. I've walked in 200m below someone at the head and have heard faint voices only to turn and see tiny animated figures hopping around upstream in an angry fashion.
My reaction? Keep on fishing. 200m takes a couple hours to cover, so by the time those fellows get to where I was, I'll probably be back in Terrace having a beer.

Then there's the experience of a couple of years ago. My son (new steelheader) and I walked into the head of 100m long run on a Skeena trib. There were three fly guys down in the tailout. Before we started fishing, I hiked down and said, "My kid and I are going to fish gear through this run. Before we start, do your friends or you want to come back to the top and take another pass?" The fellow said, "Yes". I said, "Are you coming?" He replied, "We want to fish another 15 minutes here, then we'll come up." Me, "Fine, we'll be fishing." Sure enough, 15 minutes later they come tromping up the bank and declined to fish, saying, "Don't offer the water if you aren't prepared to give it to us." I said, "I am not going to wait to fish until you are ready to come up." (More huffing and puffing.)

My new-to-steelheading son said, "Dad, why bother trying to be nice to jerks?" My reply, "The sad thing is, they think WE are the jerks."

I don't know if there's a moral to these stories, but to the spey fellows on this site, don't assume the gear fishermen you meet on the Skeena & tribs are knuckleheads. Most of us know how to fly fish, but generally fish gear up there. We are step-and-casters by and large, and will give you the benefit of the doubt re access to the run simply because you're fishing a more demanding method. Just be cool re our choice of method.

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Tennessean

· #29 · Oct 6, 2014

ibboone said:
:chuckle: I wish I only got low holed. I was fishing the Rappahanock River this year for shad and a lady was standing on the bank behind me and casted over me. :whoa: He line landed beside me. I laughed, turned and looked at her. She said, " sorry I didn't mean to cast that way". Honestly there was no where else for her to cast. I had just landed a fish and she wanted in on the action. I walked towards her and told her, " you can have it, I have had enough for the day". I had been there 5 hours. 3 of that 5 I didn't even see another person. Between 3 to 4 hours I had 2 other people join me in the same area. Within the last hour all the nuts started showing up. Time to go.

Dan

She wasn't interested in fishing

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RPrice

· #30 · Oct 7, 2014

I agree that there's lots of good info. in this thread!! I really appreciate the insight!!

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fishmhard

· #31 · Oct 8, 2014

we are all in it for the same reason

I have always thought that we anglers have more in common than we think and carrying different tackle to the stream, doesn't often change that. I too used to get pissed when I got "low holed" , but I quickly realized unless it was a spey guy doing it on purpose, I was the only one suffering over the situation, and the other doodes didn't even know what I was frosted over, and I was a fool to expect them to change there habits to suit me, pretty selfish on my part I decided . Your deal may be different but that's what I figured out, and now, stress free baby! And, you'll be surprised how many times you will leave a run over this only to stumble into a better fishing situation. Be cordial, friendly and helpful to others on the water, and watch the gods of the fish pay you in rewards... It's simply good mojoe- I refuse to let any situation ruin my day on the river anymore, get to the next run quickly as the prize will likely be waiting for you there

Wild Bill, hope life is good, and Golfman, hope you stuck a B-run on the Clear...

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Jason

· #32 · Oct 8, 2014

Pretty well stated, for a caveman. I think you may be more of a zen caveman that most of us. I can relate to what you're saying, but I do admit that it still fries me when someone lowholes me. I guess for me it's all about the level of respect that's shown or not. It ain't exactly rocket science to observe what patch of water another angler is fishing, and low and behold they appear to be moving one direction or another...

To me it's all about respect, and I try to give far more than I ever hope to receive. If more did the same it could someday become quite the experience. There are of course some places where this is almost unheard of, and it's a joy to fish those places. I strive to your level of acceptance, both on and off the water; but I've yet to make peace with just how many jack-asses there are in the world and to the levels that they will go to serve their own interests.

Deep breaths,
JB

P.S. I could care less what kind of tackle, or presentation method one is using. It's ALL about their ethics towards:
a) the resource as a whole
b) the fish
C) other anglers

(in that order I might add)

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matuka mike

· #33 · Oct 8, 2014

common courtesy. my 2nd faveorite oxymoron. right behind common sense,
bank anglers dont bother me so much as boats, a few rivers i fish. when its one every 5 minues slinging bait or boobers and beads, lowholing you every time, fish not gettting a moments rest, my confidence goes a little south. many are guides that know how we roll.

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James C

· #34 · Oct 8, 2014

w.r. earl said:
I was on the Kispiox last week.Went down to the Lower Patch where one is supposed to pay the Natives $ 25.00 to fish.There was guide there with a client on both left & right bank so I waited until they left the patch and drifted on down stream.I went down the bank and made about 6 casts when a local Native and his young son came down with gear rods and low holed me with in less than a spey cast distance! Needless to say I left the bank and did not pay the $25.00.
This opens up lots of questions re the lower Kispiox,guide situation and Native rights!

I'm curious, what you think of all these responses W.R.? Have they influenced your position or changed your view?

Hope you find the Lower Patch all to yourself the next time you go there.

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fishmhard

· #35 · Oct 9, 2014

Jason said:
Pretty well stated, for a caveman. I think you may be more of a zen caveman that most of us. I can relate to what you're saying, but I do admit that it still fries me when someone lowholes me. I guess for me it's all about the level of respect that's shown or not. It ain't exactly rocket science to observe what patch of water another angler is fishing, and low and behold they appear to be moving one direction or another...

To me it's all about respect, and I try to give far more than I ever hope to receive. If more did the same it could someday become quite the experience. There are of course some places where this is almost unheard of, and it's a joy to fish those places. I strive to your level of acceptance, both on and off the water; but I've yet to make peace with just how many jack-asses there are in the world and to the levels that they will go to serve their own interests.

Deep breaths,
JB

P.S. I could care less what kind of tackle, or presentation method one is using. It's ALL about their ethics towards:
a) the resource as a whole
b) the fish
C) other anglers

(in that order I might add)

Very well Said JB

I think the key is to focus on the 5 good guys you met on the river and not the one bad one...That's a challenge for all of us, it's human nature to focus on the 1 bad one instead, least way used to be for me. I also realized, if I got pissed, then that one butthead had the wheel and was driving the car...
Boolship to that I've decided, I'll not let it affect me, and I'll continue to respect others on the river regardless of what they do, and now that one in a few guy's irrelevant. But I still think it's more about misunderstanding than bad people more often than we think.

Case in point: This is exactly how it went down -

About 1.5 months ago I walked into a run on the lower river, perfect situation, one boat 200 yds. down stream , and the run to myself...
So I start in, fish for 10 min or so, and this gear banger fires up his sled and heads up 100 yds. above me. When he gets close, he goes out around me I say Hi, he says hi, , then in 15 yds he sucks in right on top o me shiz... So, "Zen Caveman" then is like , "Self WTF?!"
So, I simply let it go, and *****ed to myself for a bit... After 20 minutes, he's 200 yds. down river and heads back up again...

Then the light went off

He was there befor I was and was making multiple passes in that run, when I showed up, I jumped in "his" spot ! I "Low holed" him ! You know how those frigg'n spey guys are!!:saevilw:

See what I mean about misunderstanding..........
I know that many situations are different, but I bet many or closer to the same than we think, and since nobody talks much these days, The next guy has no idea what the other guy thinks, wants, is going to do, etc...
Perception is often far from reality

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w.r. earl

Discussion Starter · #36 · Oct 9, 2014

Low Holed

James C said:
I'm curious, what you think of all these responses W.R.? Have they influenced your position or changed your view?

Hope you find the Lower Patch all to yourself the next time you go there.

All the responses are interesting in their own way.As I said in another post,the situation on the lower Kispiox(read Kispiox Reserve) is a complicated and evolving situation.Have the responses changed my position or view-no.
I have fished the Skeena area every year but 2 since 1971 and caught my first Steelhead with my dad when I was 13 on the Thompson(I am now 71) so I think I have seen about it all.
I would love to have the lower patch to myself! We were there the last week of Sept./14 by 7 am one morning and there were 3 guides with clients on both sides of Upper,Middle and Lower patches.By 9 am there were 5 locals gearing the left bank of Lower Patch.
Cheers, W.R.

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clarkman23

· #37 · Oct 11, 2014

fishmhard said:
I think the key is to focus on the 5 good guys you met on the river and not the one bad one...That's a challenge for all of us, it's human nature to focus on the 1 bad one instead, least way used to be for me.

^^THAT

I used to get more annoyed than I should have when I'd get low-holed...now? not so much. life is too short. Besides, if a gear guy gets too close and is standing in "your" water, just join 'em, chat with 'em, cast next to 'em, you just might learn a thing or two. They generally don't have a clue about the arbitrary "rules" that spey anglers have set up for other spey anglers based on tradition of other spey anglers. (hell, I've seen plenty of spey anglers who appear to not know these arbitrary rules as well)

none of it will change me treating others on the river as I would want to be treated...that means giving every angler I come across plenty of room regardless of their chosen method. If I really want to fish a certain section of water close-by, I'll talk to them and ask.

perhaps *****ing about it on an internet forum should be included in the "not focusing on the 1 bad"...guess you've gotta blow off steam somehow.

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speyday

· #38 · Oct 13, 2014

Way to keep the core of the matter in focus. Poor etiquette is found in all ethnicities, regrettably.

wayvik said:
This incident has nothing to do with guides,natives etc. It was simply a matter of an individual either accidentaly or deliberitly "low holing".

Some anglers are unaware of the protocal when fishing. You may have taken the time to speak to the person in question and explained the protocal.

There is no reason to even mention the ethnic background of the individual.

Your previous posts appear to be along the same lines.