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have flies-will travel
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was on the Kispiox last week.Went down to the Lower Patch where one is supposed to pay the Natives $ 25.00 to fish.There was guide there with a client on both left & right bank so I waited until they left the patch and drifted on down stream.I went down the bank and made about 6 casts when a local Native and his young son came down with gear rods and low holed me with in less than a spey cast distance! Needless to say I left the bank and did not pay the $25.00.
This opens up lots of questions re the lower Kispiox,guide situation and Native rights!
 

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It's cool when this happens...

......yeah,I was fishing a nice stretch of the river when a spinning gear fellow came down asked if I'd caught anything....yada...yada...yada....then proceeded to low hole me..I was perturbed but figured he didn't know....I went through the run(he saw me moving down so he moved down as well....continuing the low hole LOL!!)...I moved back up changed tips and fly,to go back through.....you guessed it,he moved back up,but kept below me(continuing the low hole..LOL!!)...but back through again...We reached near the end of the run,he walked back up and said to me "your doing that Spey thang aren't you"..I said yes...and we talked for a bit about the technique I was using.I then realized he didn't have a clue about low holing or any of that...I was fine with that he was a young lad and friendly enough.He then asked "if I minded if he fished above me" LOL!!...I said..."yeeeah thats ok I don't mind at all"....so he goes above me....then about...oohhh.....4 casts later...I knocked on a door....and low and behold a steelhead of about 12# answered....jumped out of the water about 4' half dozen times or so pulled me into the backing so fast my fingers got hot(burned actually on the Dacron)...I don't know how many yrds. of backing he was into.....the fight continued for a bit...the spinning guy was using colorful language at the insane steelhead craziness display he was witnessing....then the hook pulled free and that was that.....the spinning guy said Chr$%t that was a nice fish....as I wound on a seaming endless amount of backing...I grinned and said "yeah that was awesome"....a grin that stayed on my face all the way back to the vehicle.
.......It's cool when that happens!!!....

Tight lines,
WB.
 

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Bill, that was a semi-successful episode for both of you, despite the other guy's innocent ignorance. It would have been better if, before you left (or sooner) you had given him a short, calm lecture on the proper protocol for sharing a run. By then, you had proven your lack of selfishness, so you had credibility. If the Master Monk says nothing, young Grasshopper learns nothing.:tsk_tsk:
 

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"Funny Post"

When I was planning to fish on Kispiox Band water, I went to the Eco-Tourism building in the village, and paid for my time, before fishing not after fishing. As for the man and his young son, I would have taken a seat on the bank and watched, hoping the young fellow hooked into something just to see the smile on his face, after all that is what it is all about in my books.
Bryan
 

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Hopeless Romantic...
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news flash

The only people who even have any idea of what a low hole is, is the spey community, and most of them can't agree on what exactly a low hole is, as I've asked here a few times for specifics on it's definition, and nobody can agree on an answer and most don't even try to answer, because there isn't one because the principle is stupid. When it happens, go around or go somewhere else. To go tell someone who doesn't spey fish that you are going to occupy the whole next 100+ yds of a run, and they can't fish it anywhere below you, is ridiculous- Getting them to understand "your specialized logic" , Ridiculous x2- Go around them or go find another run...
 

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Bill, that was a semi-successful episode for both of you, despite the other guy's innocent ignorance. It would have been better if, before you left (or sooner) you had given him a short, calm lecture on the proper protocol for sharing a run. By then, you had proven your lack of selfishness, so you had credibility. If the Master Monk says nothing, young Grasshopper learns nothing.:tsk_tsk:
...yup your correct I should have........

Tight lines,
WB.
 

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have flies-will travel
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Black Bug

I did go to eco- office but it was closed.Then went to band office & was told to just go and fish and "they" would find me on the river.I did sit on bank for about 30 minutes and watched a truly sad situation.The young boy got his reel snarled and was yelled at by his father and told to "get the hell off the river".
 

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The only people who even have any idea of what a low hole is, is the spey community, and most of them can't agree on what exactly a low hole is, as I've asked here a few times for specifics on it's definition, and nobody can agree on an answer and most don't even try to answer, because there isn't one because the principle is stupid. When it happens, go around or go somewhere else. To go tell someone who doesn't spey fish that you are going to occupy the whole next 100+ yds of a run, and they can't fish it anywhere below you, is ridiculous- Getting them to understand "your specialized logic" , Ridiculous x2- Go around them or go find another run...
Hey fishmhard hows it going;
Yeah that is what I was thinking too...I actually wanted to see if he would get a hit...and...he did move down as I did soo no sweat,it's fishing and we were using different methods so I was curious to see which one might get a rise...no probs....and like you say not everyone is versed on this spey thing and why should they be they don't fish this way...so...just adapt and move on...I got a nice fish to grab and fight anyway...so.....it didn't really matter in the end not worth stressing over in the slightest.

WB.
 

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have flies-will travel
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This incident has nothing to do with guides,natives etc. It was simply a matter of an individual either accidentaly or deliberitly "low holing".

Some anglers are unaware of the protocal when fishing. You may have taken the time to speak to the person in question and explained the protocal.

There is no reason to even mention the ethnic background of the individual.

Your previous posts appear to be along the same lines.
I did try to speak to the man involved but he completely ignored me.I don't know how familiar you are with the situation on the Kispiox but it is a complicated evolving situation between the Natives,guides and fishers especially on the lower river on the Kispiox reserve.
 

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Had the same thing happen to me on the Salmon river last year. The gear fisherman noticed me moving down the hole and still decided to set up and start fishing. So I just keep fishing down to him, he eventually got the point and moved on.
 

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The only people who even have any idea of what a low hole is, is the spey community, and most of them can't agree on what exactly a low hole is, as I've asked here a few times for specifics on it's definition, and nobody can agree on an answer and most don't even try to answer, because there isn't one because the principle is stupid. When it happens, go around or go somewhere else. To go tell someone who doesn't spey fish that you are going to occupy the whole next 100+ yds of a run, and they can't fish it anywhere below you, is ridiculous- Getting them to understand "your specialized logic" , Ridiculous x2- Go around them or go find another run...
Hey I was down around your way this past week...the other fisherman aren't a problem but the boats sure the hell are...guy in a green boat came into the water on the run I just finished and two others we're fishing and went right up to the top and him and his two buds started casting right into the guy on top and continued to do so for three drifts through...honestly if I hadn't seen a friend and gone up to talk to him I would have done everything in my power to hook him or get him in close enough to do some other damage...
He left after three or four trips through and my buddy left so I went down and chatted with the one poor guy up top...he said he they cast right over his line and at him every time...and he was using a single hander...

it was my last morning and I thought "what the hell" we were about to change and head up to see my daughter so one more quick trip through....I hooked just a pig of a fish near the end of the run...it was burning line and jumping... three boats below me saw it and hurried up to where I was and started casting right over my line and fish...I was just stunned...One boat had six guys in it and they couldn't get their rods out and cast fast enough...
I was in a tough spot to land a fish yet alone a big one but had to try to horse it in close as fast I could after feeling one hit my line.... I ended losing it when my line hung up on a rock...

After that a guy stepping in is sure not going to bother me as much as it used to...LOL
 

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:chuckle: I wish I only got low holed. I was fishing the Rappahanock River this year for shad and a lady was standing on the bank behind me and casted over me. :whoa: The line landed beside me. I laughed, turned and looked at her. She said, " sorry I didn't mean to cast that way". Honestly there was no where else for her to cast. I had just landed a fish and she wanted in on the action. I walked towards her and told her, " you can have it, I have had enough for the day". I had been there 5 hours. 3 of that 5 I didn't even see another person. Between 3 to 4 hours I had 2 other people join me in the same area. Within the last hour all the nuts started showing up. Time to go.


Dan
 

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I was on the Kispiox last week.Went down to the Lower Patch where one is supposed to pay the Natives $ 25.00 to fish.There was guide there with a client on both left & right bank so I waited until they left the patch and drifted on down stream.I went down the bank and made about 6 casts when a local Native and his young son came down with gear rods and low holed me with in less than a spey cast distance! Needless to say I left the bank and did not pay the $25.00.
This opens up lots of questions re the lower Kispiox,guide situation and Native rights!
We fished the Kispiox two weeks ago, and the going rate for fishing the Natives stretch (including the "patch") was $100 from the bank and an additional $100 for a boat. We opted out (and didn't catch any upstream), so according to your post, the price was reduced from when we were there? Yeah, most gear fishermen don't understand "low holing". And it's not worth the fight, during any attempt to educate them. Especially in the situation you describe! It's usually best just to smile and move on!

I don't think it opens up any questions. But I'd be curious what you think they might be.

If the cost was $25, we would have surely paid that!

Take care!
 

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The only people who even have any idea of what a low hole is, is the spey community, and most of them can't agree on what exactly a low hole is, as I've asked here a few times for specifics on it's definition, and nobody can agree on an answer and most don't even try to answer, because there isn't one because the principle is stupid. When it happens, go around or go somewhere else. To go tell someone who doesn't spey fish that you are going to occupy the whole next 100+ yds of a run, and they can't fish it anywhere below you, is ridiculous- Getting them to understand "your specialized logic" , Ridiculous x2- Go around them or go find another run...
I think FishMhard hit the nail on the head. I'd guess that 80% of the steelhead anglers on Idaho's upper Salmon cast from one point in a "hole" and that's the extent of their steelheading. And some of them will sit there all day. It's one reason why good anglers have a two fish day when the Fish and Game's stats show it was 25 hour/fish/day.

Now if you get "low-holed" by a Spey fisherman, it may be time to have a friendly heart to heart. Ask them how they're doing. Show 'em a fly that you believe in and then ask if they've heard of "low-holeing"

A bait guy? Move on. They probably think your'e gonna stand in one spot and cast all day.

L
 

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Confused

This sounds very strange, I grew up on East Coast Salmon Angling and an unwritten code was pool rotation, start at the top work through the pool at a reasonable rate, returrn to the top. Hook a fish step out of rotation return to the top. Does this not exist in the west???
 

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LoHo

Fishmhard is right. They don't know what low holing is. I think they'd be appalled to know that we consider the run from the head to the tailout "ours". Hell, there's plenty of room for everyone and in some places they'd be right. I don't know the Kispiox or the situation there, but I don't think it's unique. I honestly think, especially in the winter, that the bait and gear fisherman don't really think we have a chance in hell of catching a fish. I've had bait guys tell me that no one's ever caught a steelhead on their river with a swung fly and told me to tie on a bobber and a huge chunk of yarn on the hook, after I told them I'd hooked two.

On the coastal rivers I fish, most of the time the bank anglers are staying put in one place, waiting for the fish to move up to them. There's a saying on two of the rivers inundated with bait and gear fisherman in NorCal and Southern Oregon where I fish in the winter - "Go get 'em". Literally. Every time, I've tried to be very courteous in where I fish or row, asking first if I can move past them, row through water they're fishing or any other maneuver, 9 times out of 10, I get the same response, "Go get 'em." The other 10% of the time, I get a "I don't give a **** what you do." That's how simple it is. Go where you have to, do what you have to, within your morale code and go find your fish. Once you accept that you don't own the run, simply because the 100 yards in front of you has one name, you'll be a lot more comfortable and happy. I just work my way down, go around them say hi and keep fishing.

A lot of us have a similar story. I too have been bombarded by Bouncing Bettys, had boats launch right below me, had guys snorkeling in front of my sink tip and been starred at like I'm a ****ing unicorn. When that happens and you slip in behind a pile of bait boats, fish a little nook and cranny that everyone has ignored and hook a beautiful chrome steelhead, trust me it's all worth it to land that chrome fish and see them **** their pants because you caught one behind them. It's all worth it.

Just practice your own set of rules with respect, patience and friendliness to everyone around you and you will be rewarded. Karma does work in fishing. No if they were fly fisherman that low holed me, then there might be a beat down...
Go get 'em!
 

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This sounds very strange, I grew up on East Coast Salmon Angling and an unwritten code was pool rotation, start at the top work through the pool at a reasonable rate, returrn to the top. Hook a fish step out of rotation return to the top. Does this not exist in the west???
Nope. Never seen that kind of etiquette this neck of the woods.
You will often see people staking out a hole all day if the fishing is good... :tsk_tsk:
 

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have flies-will travel
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
We fished the Kispiox two weeks ago, and the going rate for fishing the Natives stretch (including the "patch") was $100 from the bank and an additional $100 for a boat. We opted out (and didn't catch any upstream), so according to your post, the price was reduced from when we were there? Yeah, most gear fishermen don't understand "low holing". And it's not worth the fight, during any attempt to educate them. Especially in the situation you describe! It's usually best just to smile and move on!

I don't think it opens up any questions. But I'd be curious what you think they might be.

If the cost was $25, we would have surely paid that!

Take care!
The cost for B.C. residents is $25.00/day or 100/week.Boat cost 100.00 same as last year.We were there from Sept.6/14 until Oct.1/14 and did very well upstream of the reserve.Fished the reserve 2 days and caught fish there as well.
As per questions:
The Gitzsan Treaty Society has threatened to evict all sports fishers from the Skeena watershed.Will this be settled?
The courts are not clear who owns the river bottom.We all have licences from the Province to fish so why are we being charged to fish?The charge by the Kispiox Band should be to cross their land which they now legally own.
River access.The guides are trying to limit access to the Kispiox.They were behind the band putting in these large charges in the first place while they negotiated a very low seasonal rate for them selves.But they are now being charged a much higher rate and I understand it will be higher again next season.
But enough politics--lets enjoy the sport while we can!
Cheers.
 
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