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Hi

Having a few problems when the fish are taking short using loop tubes dressed in the Scandic long wing style. It looks terrific in the water and I have had a lot of success with them, however I do go through phases where the fish take the tail of the fly behind the hook, this can be immensely exasperating!

Is there any way of getting the double to sit further back into the tail of the fly? I have tried the surgeons knot which so far has been unconvincing and besides the knot gets damaged when playing a fish which is not good news. I have tried inserting a small plastic tube to act as a spacer this unbalances the fly a little, causing the hook to hang low, but it does improve the hooking rate.

Any suggestions anyone? :confused:
 

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Rather than trying to set the hook spacing at the rear of the fly have you tried doing it at the front end of the tube?

Let the hook drop back to where you think the fish will not miss it then using a small round tooth pick set the line length by placing the toothpick in the front end of the tube to pinch the line in place.

Other than that have you tried using two smaller tubes to make up the size of fly you want? Using the trailing tube as your hook holder fly....in other words, make a large fly by using two tubes in tandem.....slide a small tube fly up the leader then add your second tube with the hook in the hook holder tube at the rear...you will get a large fly profile that is made up of two tubes, it will have a lot of action,...like an articulated leech pattern and reduce the amount of short strikes.

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Interesting approach. I like the sound of using the tooth pick. Will the jarring action of casting the fly not eventually move the fly down the leader though?

I did consider placing a hitch on the head of the fly but that would induce a kiting effect which I don't think looks too good unless worked on the surface. Perhaps I should try to hitch to the tail of the tube instead. Will work on it I'm sure there's a simple solution out there.
 

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LC, Like you, I like the look of those little brass tubes very much. And I, too, sometimes worry about fish taking short.

This touches on the same ground that Fred Evans covered in his thread about losing 7 fish in a row. As was said both on this board and the UK one where he posted the same question, sometimes fish just don't take properly. But as I suggested to him on the other board, I do think that the current fashion for dressings much longer than the hook length may sometimes contribute to the number of losses, and perhaps we should think about going back to the old low water style of dressing in such conditions.

If you are getting snatchy or tentative takes which aren't sticking, I would be inclined simply to use a longer tube. Weight a clear plastic tube at its front end only with some lead wire or sheet. Tie the body (and hackle if you're using one) over this section only, leaving the rear portion of tube undressed. All the dressing is concentrated at the front end, and you can still tie a long wing as before. A section of clear flexible tubing at the rear will hold the hook in alignment in the usual way. The overall impression is still similar to a bottle tube, but the extra (undressed) length of tube ensures that the hook sits further back.
 

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Last Cast,

I used the tooth pick last season with no problems with slippage. What I did was insert the tooth pick from the back of the tube - where it has a wedging effect.
 

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Last Cast.

One other method you may want to try is to slide your leader through the tube, then slip a small bead onto the leader. What you can do next may or may not sit well. Some think that the knot is the weak point, I find the perfection loop quite strong.
Tie a long perfection loop, this will allow the hook to sit futher back, the longer the loop the further back it sits. Now to attach the hook, use the doubled over perfection loop, slip the entire loop through the eye of the hook push it all the way over the bend of the hook and then pull it up tight, it will lasso or act like a noose on the hook eye.
The lasso will also help keep the hook on the horizontal plane rather than swinging wildly in an open loop.
What you have now is a hook that is far enough back with the bead holding at the knot allowing further hook placement.


Try the double tube fly approach.........you have a fly that will dance like a hoola girl
 

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It's easier than that boys... Just carry various sections (half inch to 1 inch works for me) of clear plastic hard tube with hook holders attached. Pick the length you want, insert into the loop's hook holder and you are good to go. Started doing this when trolling in bluewater when smaller tuna species were about, and started applying it to beach fishing to cut down on fouling, and finally river fishing for "nippers".
 

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Most people I know use these short and heavy tubes when they fish fast and square, often with down stream mending. Fished that way the salmon seem to grab the fly over the side, which mostly means good hooking. The same folks use cone head tubes when fishing slower water and/or when they´re mending upstream. With a cone head you can use a long plastic tube which places the hook as far back as you want. The hooking ratio is one reason why I like tube flies; a small razor sharp treble (for example Owner STH36BC) gives you an advantage, I think.
 

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Owner Stingers

Fredtrout.
I fished the Varzuga Russia this year and lost 46 fish, at worst 9 on the trot. I was fishing with two inch brass Evans Specials and when needed a Willie Gunn hanging behind it. The hooks I was using were Kamsan doubles size 8.
As soon as I changed to the stingers I caught 26 and lost one. I then fished the trebles on the Alta in August and caught 16, lost one, biggest 28.5 lb
Needless to say I would never fish with anything other than Stingers again !!!
Mick
 

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Mick,

Nice fish!
I'm puzzled; what do you mean by "stingers"?

I may be pestering you for a 15ft blank during the close season. I built the 13.5ft and it works a treat with a 7/8 line. Made a few mistakes, but will rectify them on the next build.

Tight Lines,

Gary.
 

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Gary.
good to hear from you and glad you are pleased with the blank, just let me know about the 15'.
Go to www.shortferry.co.uk/endtackle/results.asp?select=OWNER for the Stinger trebles.
We have had a huge run of fish in the Ettrick over the last couple of weeks and I have do not have any rods out....could you get down there this week or next ? It looks like the river is going to be fishing a month early and I cant get up there until October 1. Take Stan with you he needs the break !!
All the best
Mick
 

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Mick,

Thank you for the offer. I should be able to get down any time as I have plenty of leave to take before the end of December. PM or email me with any details and I'll get in touch with Stan.

Incidentally, another good hook that is a substitute for loop doubles at half the price is the Partridge HND(Heavy Nymph Double). A friend put me on to them; he has landed salmon to 18lb this year with no bending or breaking of hooks.

Tight Lines,
Gary
 

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Mick, what do reckon is the main difference of "stinger" hooks/trebles to that of say Salar or Ken Sawada? Just curious. I'll probably buy some anyway, cause that's the kind of "easily influenced guy" I am.

Wish I was back in Scotland with all this rain falling and rivers full of fish. )-:
 

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Storlaks.
I have not used the Ken Sawada hooks but I can tell you that the stingers are STRONG and SHARP !
I am going to use them for tarpon in Cuba next year !
I just had an email from a pal of mine , he was fishing the Tay for three days last week and had 23 including a 22 and 18 lb !
Scotland is looking up at last 1
Regards
Mick
 

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Mick, I guess they are similar to Sawada hooks then. I'll buy some and see anyway. Thanks for the pointer.

23 is 3 days.......that's pretty good going for anywhere, let alone Scotland.
The East coast rivers have all fished well this year....Spring right through. Part of this, I'm sure, is attributed to the North East drift net buyout.....Long may it continue.

If only we had a similar story on the West coast!
 

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Loop tube hook idea

Hi,

I use Loop tubes alot and a method I've used to set the hook further back also does something else for you. What I do is take a plain old streamer hook or whatever has a fairly strong eye. I cut the eye of the hook away from the shank so it's just the eye of a hook or an O. I put my main line through the tube and then tie on the eye of the hook. From there I tie on a piece of mono that is lighter then the main line going through the tube. Then I tie on the hook keeping the piece of mono between the eye and the hook as short as possible. If you fish sink tips, and close to the bottom, it will allow you to get hung up and break the hook off without losing the tube or that special fly that's been working :wink: Use a longer piece of junction tubing so the hook still rides strait out of the the back of the fly.

Good luck!
Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Speysteel,

I had considered this idea but never quite got round to it. Would a conventional split ring work as used on spoons, they look a too bit bulky and cumbersome to me. I thought of trying the small roman moser links but question whether they would be strong enough for salmon......or the bottom :wink:


I was going to try the toothpick as advised by Norseman and Kush. I like the versitility of being able to adjust the length on the hoof. I have regularly had a fish come two or three times taking short, this option would allow me to adjust the length within a few seconds while the fish are still active.

Thanks to everyone, I 've now got lots of options it will be interesting to see which technique is the most successful and practical, will let you know how I get on.
 
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