[Moose]

Had a conversation with Bob Meiser sunday that will likely become an ongoing discussion. With his question of what types of rods I thought guys down this way might be interested in seeing I mentioned (among other things) a 15 footer that would throw a long belly 6/7, and he was a bit surprised. This sort of struck me as"Huh, maybe it's just me", but in retrospect I kind of doubt it. So I'm wondering if anyone else is looking for the same thing. I like to fish long lines but have little need for 9 and 10 weights.

My reasoning is this:

1. I see a lot of guys who buy these shorter rods (popular the last couple of years) and then try to throw long belly's on them. They go to fly shops and ask, "What's a good rod to learn on" and are directed to 12 to 13 foot rods and short lines like the Windcutter or Delta. Not bad advice at all. Then they go to the river and see other spey casters throwing XLT's and Grandspeys and of course they then want to cast those long gracefull lines too, so they go buy one and struggle to even move the long lines with the short rods they bought. I saw one poor fellow a few weeks ago who had bought a brand new Scott 11 1/2 footer and was beside himself trying to cast a triangle taper spey 8.
In my own experience, 14 feet is a good minimum to allow for good pick up and movement of long lines, 15 feet is better. But so many of these long rods are also heavily rated rods.

2. I also see a lot of guys who like to fish light, beacause who wants to hook a fish and have no fight because the rod is like a club. Let's face it, if you fish year 'round and don't live in "Hog" heaven (BC, Alaska, etc.) most fishing, at least where I live, is for 2-5 pound steelies, shad, stripers, etc.. Spey rods from 5 on the light side to 8 on the heavy side are all that is needed, and a 6/7 would be a good all around, year 'round rod.

3. One complaint I hear more than any other is "Man, I hate all this stripping". Most easy casting lines are in the short to mid head range. A friend of mine has tweaked some XLT lines to specifically match certain rods so that you can cast with 60 to 70 feet outside the tip all day and shoot a long way if you want to. We love em because you don't have to strip, but eventhough I can cast these with my 13 footers, they are considerably easier to work with longer rods.

4. With a 14 to 15 footer I can still effectively throw short heads and the extra length even helps lift tips.

I see the new CND solstice 15 foot 7/8 is supposed to throw the 6/7 XLT. Haven't tried it yet, but wonder about the versatillity of this rod. Is the era of the long and light rod that can do it all here? Is anyone els looking for it besides me?

 

[MJC]

Hey Moose...

I see the new CND solstice 15 foot 7/8 is supposed to throw the 6/7 XLT. Haven't tried it yet, but wonder about the versatillity of this rod. Is the era of the long and light rod

Maybe you should take a test drive. I think you will really like this rod. I can tell you it throws the Delta and Delta Long 7/8 just great.

 

[Gillie]

Moose,
I definitely know where you are coming from. I fished the deschutes this summer with a 13' rod and although I did fine I found myself wanting a longer rod and longer belly at times. I'll hit either the Deschutes or the Umpqua next summer and have been eyeing a few long light rods for next year. The Solstice series looks very interesting but the one that has caught my eye is the new Loomis 15' 7/8 Greased Line. Unfortunately it so new that I havent been able to find anybody with a lot of experience with the rod. It looks very nicely made and I like GLX rods in general. The one down side is it is very expensive. It lists for 920 :whoa:. I did have a chance to cast the Sage 7141 while on the Deschutes this summer while I was with a guide who had one in the boat and it was very crisp. It was lined with a Delta so I didn't get the chance to try it with a longer belly line.

Gillie

 

[andre]

Moose,

This goes back a loooong way, I have old 15' B&W 7 wt that throws a 6/7 XLT for a US rod the old Sage 8150 is a nice stick. Newer stuff the 15'2 Solstice is also sweet, I had know idea the new Loomis rod were that expensive ouch! but I'm sure they are also very nice.

 

[Luv2flyfish]

I too have had the said concerns, but I seem to get by ok as of lately.

I throw a Brownie Sage 9150 with a 7/8 XLT. I dont have enough experience to say if this good, great, or sucks, but I can throw all I can throw - comfortably, and catch steelhead, so it works for me.

I just recently got a 7136 Sage that I will be throwing a 6/7 XLT on.

I know there are not a whole lot of sage spey fans, but one thing you can do with a sage is throw an XLT.

Funny you mention it - I was eyeballing the 15'2" solstice today (on the web) and was wondering about a 6/7 or 7/8 XLT on it. I wonder how it would perform with an XLT with tips? I threw the little solstice at the NW Casting Expo when I was home on leave and it was a sweet deal. I think the coolest thing would be a long belly line, LIGHT ENOUGH to throw on these sweet little new light sticks that are coming out. I have talked with Juro and Brian S. about trying to solve the mystery of heavy long bellies.

I learned on a long belly line. I never could find any justification for shooting line and stripping with a 14 or 15 foot rod. If I wanted to strip and shoot - I'd throw my speys in the trash in go back to fishing my single handers. windcutters and Mid Spey have a pretty short head on them - why blast out a 100 foot cast only to strip in 60 feet of it get back to the head to cast it again. 100 feet with a long belly, you get to just pick it up and cast it again (or more). For some styles of casting stripping and shooting the preferred - and thats all good. I like the traditional style which is done with long lines.

I wonder also if the line MFG's are making any attempts at lightening up the long bellies to be more accomodating. The only thing I could see preventing this is if that weight is needed to get the performance? I dunno.

 

[Gillie]

Certainly the 15' 7/8 rod is for smaller fish. I have this discussion with people quite often that spey rod weight designations are not comparable to most single handed rods due to the leverage issue. I most commomly fish a 9 weight on the great lakes but I don't think I would ever fish a single handed 9 weight on the same rivers.

The 15' 7/8 Loomis and some of the similair sized Soltice series would be incredible on the Deschutes for summer fish.

Gillie

 

[SSPey]

These long light rods can be great all rounders, winter and summer. I used my 8150 this way for a few years. I often consider selling it as I accumulte more specialized rods, but its great for visitors, and a perfect backup for most anything.

The 15' #8 configuration can be very versatile. It doesn't have to be uni-dimensional, but it can be.

In my mind, for the light 13'6" - 14' rods, we need some true 70-80' belly spey lines on the market. The midspeys and long-deltas and Triangle tapers, down in the 6-7-8 weights, always measure out near 60'. Then there's the 80-90' superlongs. What about the middle? Except for the really advanced few, I suspect that many of us are comfortable casting and fishing around 75'.

 

[voodoofly]

A compromise

that I found is to size a DT with the 13' rod. Most DTs in the 8 and 9 weight will work and are 105' long. I cannot get that much line off, but I'm working at it.

Gary

P.S. I think a 14-15' 5/6/7 would be pretty cool to try out.

 

[MJC]

Anybody catch any serious sized fish on a 15'2" Solstice yet?

I don't know how you define serious but I know of a couple fish in the 34" range. I believe the 15'2" Solstice will handle any fish the Clearwater in Idaho has to offer. If I didn't I wouldn't have it on the hood.

Sometimes I wonder about all of this. All I've heard for months is the chant "longer/lighter, longer/lighter". Now there are some companies answering the call and all of a sudden there is a great concern about these rods doing the job. There is only one way to find out and that is to take a test drive.

 

[SSPey]

maybe I'm unreasonable, but until these lines get into line pricewise, they don't exist in my mind ...

I was just plunking around, and it seems that new 7/8 Grandspey is 75' - hoorah!

 

[flytyer]

In my mind, a 15' 7/8 is a light line rod and is as light as I would go in a 15' rod; heck, a 7/8 is as light a rod as I'd ever use for steelhead. I foresee more rod makers doing what Loomis has done with the Grease Liner series and having 15' rods that go from 8 wt to 11 wt because this covers light line to heavy line for long-belly users.

 

[Big K1]

I have cast the 15'2" solstice with a 7/8 xlt and it was pretty heavy. The 6/7 would
be a better choice. The Snowbee 3d's have a 73' head and the lightest one comes
in at 617 grns. for the head weight. The Carron 9/10 was pretty nice on the long
Solstice. The tip feels a little soft to me. I agree with Flytyer 7/8 is as light as I would
want in a 15' rod. The 13'4" solstice is a nice light summer rod that throws a 6/7 midspey
with authority. How far out are you guys really fishing? I wish T&T had a 1407 with
the same taper as the 1409-3 That would be a great summer stick.

 

[SSPey]

Kevin

several years ago I asked Lon at T&T to consider such a rod, and I know there was talk about it, but I suppose they never developed the rod.

 

[salmo]

The Solstice 14'3" 7/8 works very well with 7/8 MidSpey.

 

[Moose]

I'm kind of surprised at some of the responses, especially the statements that you wouldn't want to catch a steelhead on anything lighter than a 7/8. I bought Meisers 13' 5/6/7 just specifically because catching shad and steelhead on my 8 weight was seriously less than exciting. Again, I'm talking fish to 5 pounds, and the 1356 rod will handle more than that. In fact, if it were the same light, crisp rod it is now but close to 15 feet it would be exactly what I'm hoping to find. Not that the 1356 is anything less than fabulous, it's just not as long as I'd like for throwing "Long Belly's Only"! Shoot, I caught a nice striper on his 12'6" 4/5/6 and there was no problem with the rod handling it.

I'll admit that this idea is for the pleasure of casting and not so much for the practicallity of fishing. Two distinctly seperate pursuits that can have the same outcome, hooking a fish. During the summer doldrums I get many hours of pleasure casting when I know the odds of hooking up are slim. I dont spend these hours lobbing heavy short heads and tips and stripping til my elbow wears out.

The idea of even the lightest long belly's (XLT especially) still being too heavy is easily remedied by removing some of the heaviest belly section. You can lighten it to match up to your rod and still have a longer belly than any mid head on the market.

MJC, I definitely will want to test drive the 15'2" Solstice, but not until after the hollidays man! Them kids is wearin santa's wallet out! And I wouldn't want to have it to try out unless the money was in hand, cuz it may break my heart to have to send it back to you!

I had thought about the Sage 7141, but had heard that is is more like an 8 wt. What I'm thinking is, with the new spey line standards and all, if it matches up perfectly to the 6/7 XLT then the rod's a 6/7 in my mind. I recently cast a friends Scott ARC 1509 and it threw the 8/9 XLT beautifully, with about 80 feet outside the tip. I loved it. I'm lookin for the rod that will do that with the XLT 6/7. :whoa:

 

[Big K1]

Moose,

I never said I didn't want to catch a steelhead on something lighter than a 7/8.
I just don't want a 15' rod lighter than 7/8.
As far as throwing a 6/7 xlt, the 15'2" solstice may be the rod for you then.

 

[JGS]

Why does one need a long rod to cast the XLT 6/7. I think the T&T handles an XLT 6/7 just fine as does the Sage 7136. My Burkie 8133 will toss an XLT 7/8 with authority. I peronally think a long, light rod is an oxymoron. One of the reasons I fish light line weight rods is their light weight. Swinging a 15' 6/7 would defeat the intent and leave me more fatigued than fishing a 13' 9/10 all day. Again, personal opinion, but I like the current offerings from rod manufacturers.

JGS

 

[JDJones]

Long & Light or Fine & Far Off

Is the era of the long and light rod that can do it all here? Is anyone else looking for it besides me?

Moose, you are not alone. I have said the same thing myself. I mark my lines at 10 foot entervals starting at 50 feet. So I know how much line I am throwing and what my limits are.

With the old Sage 8150 I could reach out to about 95 feet with a 7/8 XLT. And that rod is capable of whipping a good size Salmon. With the CND Solstace 15'-2" and the 7/8 XLT, I can reach out another 10 feet, maybe more on a good day. Haven't tried the 6/7 XLT on the Solstace. I have no doubts about the CND's fighting power. If the 8150 can whip a Salmon, I'm confident the CND will do as well. And with it's faster recovery it throws a tighter loop.

With the Sage 7136 green, and a 6/7 XLT I can reach out to about 75 to 85 feet. I just can't mend as much line. So longer is better. Plus I wish the 7136 had a little faster recovery. Not necessarily faster, stiffer action. Just faster recovery. I have landed a 34" native steelhead on the 7136 so I'm not worried about being under powered.

I don't like to throw sink tips or heavily weighted flies with the XLT lines. They have such a long fine front taper and I don't want to cut them back.

The Grand Spey lines, however, will throw sink tips and big heavy flies. But Grand Spey lines are heaaaaavy. My 7/8 GS weighed 1062 grains at 80 feet. Much too heavy to be considered a true 7 or 8 weight line.

The rod makers are starting to take notice and produce 15 foot "Grease Line" rods capable of lifting and throwing a long line. And this is good. The line manufacturers are talking about standardizing line designations. Also good. I just hope that in the lighter sizes, the long bellies don't become just 10 foot longer Mid Speys.

What we need to do is to say build me a rod that will cast a Bomber or a Waller Waker 100 feet without shooting line. And be able to mend the line,,,,all the way to the fly! :smokin:

And to those who would ask, how far out do you want to fish? I would answer, if you could put a fly over there, would you fish that water?

And for those that think a rod, any rod is worth 900+dollars, all I got to say is, you got to be *&^%$#@\! kidding!

 

[Moose]

Why does one need a long rod to cast the XLT 6/7. I peronally think a long, light rod is an oxymoron. One of the reasons I fish light line weight rods is their light weight. Swinging a 15' 6/7 would defeat the intent and leave me more fatigued than fishing a 13' 9/10 all day.

JGS

Well, I can cast that line with a broomstick, I don't "need" anything else, but there are more pleasureable options.

Long and light an oxymoron? As opposed to what, short and stout? This is better? Whatever. I thought the whole idea behind the spage age technology going into these rods was to make them lighter, faster recovering, easier on the caster. Ask Nobuo if his Solstice rods are long and light, or Meiser his 16' 7/8? You should probably inform them that they're wasting their time and save them a lot of wasted effort. If a long light rod balances well with the reel then it won't fatigue you. You can get fatigued by any imbalanced setup, rod length is not the sole factor. If you read up you'll see that there are others that the idea appeals to.

Big K1, I was referring to flytyers statement that " a 7/8 is as light a rod as I'd ever use for steelhead".

Again, a 15 foot rod is not necessary to cast long bellys, but I've found they make it much easier to handle long lengths of line and with my penchant for lighter rods.....

 

[kush]

Moose,

My favourite line on the 15'2" Solstice has been the 7/8 Airflo Long Delta. It has a profile very similar to the XLT - but not quite as extreme. I used it on the Clearwater and the Upper Skykomish - it was nice. While I haven't tried it with a 6/7 XLT I have used a #8 Derek Brown Speydriver and it was very good - so I imagine the XLT would be excellent as well.

I did notice that it was not a rod to be overpowered. Its progressive action much prefers a smooth application of power. When I first hit it trying for "a little more distance" I got a tailing loop. Kevin, this may account for your feeling the tip was a little light. When I was smoother on the application of power the problem dissappeared.

I think that at 15'2" and 7/8 wt Nobuo's progressive action design is accentuated. If taken advantage of it creates some smooth and easy casting.

BTW, I used both those lines on the 14'3" Solstice and they performed equally well.