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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I add to the data bank of lines for the 5120 understanding differing opinions of casters using the same rod and line and opinions differing relative to the expertise of the caster. I have tried:
WC 5/6--rod not loaded
WC 11/12/(13) head(26'/470gr-- essentially a Skagit "7/8")---with 10' WC 5/6 tip---at 36'/525gr rod over-loaded
WC 9/10/(11) head(22.5'/320gr) with AF I S.T.(10'/35gr) at 32.5'/355gr Skagit casted nicely, single speyed beautifully, and was a lazer overhead casting
WC 10/11/(12) head(23.5'/380gr) with AF I S.T.(10'/35gr) at 33.5'/415gr similar to the WC 9/10/ head above with the rod loading a bit better
But the clear winner---as I found with my Scott ARC 6120(I added 3" to the butt)---was the Air Flo(AF) "40+" line. At 32.5'/370gr and with an AF I (10'/35gr) giving a line 42.5'/405gr did everything well--single speyed(traditional spey cast) and Skagit casted beautifully and with Rio's SlickShooter 35# running line boomed overhead casts toward the next county. In addition, I felt I hadn't used all the potential of the rod, and if need be, an added a punch here and there would not collapse the rod. I used a leader/tippit anywhere from 4-10' long and had a 25gr cone head streamer on as the fly. All of the above was done on a lagoon, no real fishing experience with this new rod for me.
 

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My experience with lines and the Sage 5120

clyde olson said:
I add to the data bank of lines for the 5120 understanding differing opinions of casters using the same rod and line and opinions differing relative to the expertise of the caster. I have tried:
WC 5/6--rod not loaded
WC 11/12/(13) head(26'/470gr-- essentially a Skagit "7/8")---with 10' WC 5/6 tip---at 36'/525gr rod over-loaded
WC 9/10/(11) head(22.5'/320gr) with AF I S.T.(10'/35gr) at 32.5'/355gr Skagit casted nicely, single speyed beautifully, and was a lazer overhead casting
WC 10/11/(12) head(23.5'/380gr) with AF I S.T.(10'/35gr) at 33.5'/415gr similar to the WC 9/10/ head above with the rod loading a bit better
But the clear winner---as I found with my Scott ARC 6120(I added 3" to the butt)---was the Air Flo(AF) "40+" line. At 32.5'/370gr and with an AF I (10'/35gr) giving a line 42.5'/405gr did everything well--single speyed(traditional spey cast) and Skagit casted beautifully and with Rio's SlickShooter 35# running line boomed overhead casts toward the next county. In addition, I felt I hadn't used all the potential of the rod, and if need be, an added a punch here and there would not collapse the rod. I used a leader/tippit anywhere from 4-10' long and had a 25gr cone head streamer on as the fly. All of the above was done on a lagoon, no real fishing experience with this new rod for me.
Like you the W/C 5/6 didn't load the road at all, and I felt like I was trying to cast a long piece of very limp linguini.

The WC 678 with tips and w/ or w/o the upgrade performs the best when there is a wind impact.

MS 6/7 floater with a 15' leader could be casted all day with a wet or dry fly from a size 20 to size 4.

MS 7/8 with tips is excellent unless winds get over 10 mph.

The Rio 12' sinking leaders perform better than the standard 15' Rio tips. 6' is the maximum T14 that works for me.

Simon sent me a group of WC body's to try Skagit casting with, none really worked for me.

I was advised by a lurker to try the Skagit 450 with the 5120. It works great with the the 12' Rio sinking tips and with any appropriate 15' floating tip.

5126 laser casts the OB 8 weight sinking line with the overhead cast and does basically the same with the Skagit with a roll cast to set it up. With the OB I need about 6' of the head in past my rod tip.

I have an OB 8 weight floater coming from Santa to try for Skagit floating casts . Rick J has warned me that it might not load the rod. Santa is also bringing me a 10 weight OB floater.

The rod handles wild trout up to 4 #'s (largest so far) with no problem. You know that you have a fish on, and I still can get them in fast not to wear them out. Having said that, I will use my 6126 and/or Meiser's 7/8 switch rod with the Skagit 450 for local steelhead.

The Teeny 300 works very well, and the Teeny 200 didn't load the rod. However, with the Skagit 450, there is no real need for these Teeny's.

For highsticking and lobbing a big right angle indicator and sinking flies, Rio's wF6F Nymph line works well. I have the feeling that the OB's that Santa is bringing will work better if I want some distance on the lob and a long drift.
 

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Re indicators

andre said:
indicator ???? say it ain't so
If the fish in Putah Creek are not striking dries, nymphs or streamers, I go to indicators. In the winter time the time cycles to the indicator gets shorter.

I'm 67, and I'm not going to waste what is left of my life re fishing time to satisfy :p purists. Some of which believe that sinking tips and Skagits lines are the tools of the devil.

If we have some fishable steelhead waters this winter and early spring, and the normal flies don't work with Skagits and floating line, the indicators will be used.

If that doesn't work, this year my trusty 8.5' Loomis Spinning rod will be with me with lures have caught up to 10 steelhead a day when flies didn't work. :saeek: No longer will it be left in my closet for fishless days with flies.

My son works magic with flies in the Delta fishing for Stripers on most days. However, on some days even his magic and secret Llama flies fail. This past August we bought him a spinning rod for those bad fly days for his birthday as requested. There is another spinning rod from Santa under the tree as requested. :saevilw: His new rule is the reality rule. If after a hour or so, if the Stripers don't strike any flies that are hurled after them, got to the exciting floating spinning lure and watch them battle to get to the floating spinning lure. If that doesn't work go to a deadly underwater spinning lure.

His winter Striper plan is to have 3 fly rods rigged and ready to cast with 3 different past winning flies. If fish are below and no strikes in 10 minutes with each rod, the spinning rods will be used. The one with the floating lure first and then the one with sinking lure if the floater doesn't work.
 

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Laird of Locharber
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Performance Taper Spey

When I got me a 5120 in 04 I went with the line that sage made to match up with the rod.Almost got a WC 5/6 :roll: The specs that Sage emailed back were
  • Total Length-105'
  1. Head Length (tapered) - 5'
  2. Rear Taper - 20'
  3. Belly - 27'
  4. Front Taper - 8'
  5. Overall head - 60'
  6. Running line - 45'
Anyhoo this line casts well on the 5120,even with Rio 7' sinking leaders.Would like to also try 12' sinking leaders soon.A SA Nymph 6wt was tried,but it was too light to load, more gr's needed maybe a 8wt.The newer nymph line is a 65' head tapered like a XLT.Also have WC 6/7/8 ,MS 6/7 lines to try as well as a WC 9/10/11 body that iI would like to try with a 12' 13.5 gpf type 6 tip. :lildevl:
 

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Curious results on the 5120. I have spent very litytle time with this rod, less than an hour at a clave back in 2003, but my results were the 5/6 WC was a nice match and the Sage line was far too light.
 

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The Sage recommended line for the 5125 cost me two years of not buying the rod.

craigspey said:
When I got me a 5120 in 04 I went with the line that sage made to match up with the rod.Almost got a WC 5/6 :roll: The specs that Sage emailed back were
  • Total Length-105'
    :


  • Three years ago in the Marin Fly Show this coming Jan/Feb, I tried the Sage 5120 with the recommended Sage line, and I had the same look on my face that most others had, like the ====! I put the trial rod and line up and walked away.

    Later, I kept reading and hearing good things about the 5120, and bought one this summer. I had the WC 5/6 and it performed even worse than the Sage line did. It never loaded the rod and would collapse fall down during every cast between 40' and 50' out.

    However, the rod works great with the lines I mentioned in my reply above.

    It is amazing how different rod line combos work for some of us and doesn't for some of us.

    Buy the Rio 12' sinking Salmon leaders and try them. They are excellent with this little rod, and the 12' type 8 sinking tip works well with all of my Skagits and all rod weights. These 12' tips and any floating tip from 7 weight down are all we need with a Skagit 450 line and the 5126. Even my floating tip from my old Grand Spey 7/8 works as well as the floating tips from an Air Flow 6 and 8 weight one handed line with tips.
 

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Hi,

I like the 5120 with the W\C 5\6, but only for fishing a river with a fair bit of line out. Its not great for close in work. Clyde, what # AFTM 40+ did you try. Not sure we have the same line over here. Over here the 40+ is a sort of 1 piece shooting head line for single handed rods. Is that the same over there?

Thanks,

Sam
 

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While you were posting your reply, I was posting a similar response.

sinktip said:
Curious results on the 5120. I have spent very litytle time with this rod, less than an hour at a clave back in 2003, but my results were the 5/6 WC was a nice match and the Sage line was far too light.
"It is amazing how different rod line combos work for some of us and doesn't for some of us."

We know after Mark's measuring and weighing factory made rods and lines in his flyshop that there was a surprising amount of variance in the weights of the rods and and even the lengths. The variance re weight and length of fly lines is pretty well known.

Then, throw in factory blanks and the finished rod from those blanks made by a Meiser or Gary Anderson. These guys add steroids to the rods with their wrapping, different eyes, custom cork handles, different reel seats, and ways they finish the sections. :Eyecrazy: I'm sure the variance of their rods versus factory rods can be very different.

Last but not least, :confused: no one has ever really addressed the differences between casters re body build, height, athletic ability, various techniques during the cast, and the final casting stroke and follow through after the cast. These personal physical variances probably have significant impacts on any rod re its perceived and actual casting ability.
 

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Laird of Locharber
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5120 indy

Grampa Spey said:
If the fish in Putah Creek are not striking dries, nymphs or streamers, I go to indicators. In the winter time the time cycles to the indicator gets shorter.


What line(s)do you like to use for indy fishing?:lildevl:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
AFTA and the AF "40+"

Woburn---AFTA designates 140 grains for the first 30' of a 5 weight line, 330gr for an 11wt, and 380gr for a 12 wt. line. The Air Flo "40+" has 370 grains in its 32.5 head. So as has been mentioned so many times on this board, when it comes to the double-hander, AFTA numbers don't matter. What works for you works. As we have seen in this post, some felt the 5120 worked well with the WC 5/6 (47'/345gr), others did not like it. The shorter AF 40+ with more grains packed into a 15' shorter head allowed for a very compact and efficient stroke compared to the WC 5/6. Perhaps if I were a better caster I might feel differently. But with the 5120 and the Scott 6120 the 40+ is a real beauty. My 0.02.
P.S. Didn't answer your question, Woburn! The line is the AF 40+ 9 wt("WF9F").
 

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Wind Cutters or Mid Speys without tips one and two

craigspey said:
Grampa Spey said:
If the fish in Putah Creek are not striking dries, nymphs or streamers, I go to indicators. In the winter time the time cycles to the indicator gets shorter.


What line(s)do you like to use for indy fishing?:lildevl:
Fortunately, 3 plus years ago, two kind young fishers on the lower Yuba stopped to help me the first time I tried to Indy fish with my new 7136. They took off my tips one and two from my WC 678 and tied a Boll's indicator (right angle to the end loop), and then tied two flies to the line running from the WC head to the indicator. They showed me how lob cast 40' to 50' up or across and how to mend the line as the indicator went down stream. My first upstream lob nailed a nice trout straight out from me as I followed the indy down stream. I caught 6 more nice trout that day. They told me to buy an upgrade for the WC and to use it on the big waters and to use only the regular head for smaller waters like Putah Creek.

That was excellent advice and the upgrade and the WC 678 and the indy has worked in the upper and lower Rogue, the Deschuttes, the Chetco, the Russian River, the American and the bigger parts of the Gualala.

The WC 678 without the upgrade and tips 1 and 2 works great on Putah Creek, the small parts of the Chetco and the Gualala.

The Boles indicator or right angle indicator becomes ineffective in really fast water or water with varying depths. With this summer's high flows with the 5120 I went to the indicators with the little neoprene ring which allows you to slide it up and down your leader. Early this summer with the high flows below the dams in most waters I used my 5120 or 6125 with my MS 7/8 with the floating tip and a 15' or 10' leader with the indy attached to slide up or down the leader. I can Double Spey with this, roll cast or lob with it. Later I put a floating tip on the Skagit 450, the leader with the indicator attached to the fishing end of the floating tip. In narrow water, I can take off the floating tip and just attach the leader to the end loop of the Skagit.

Last but not least when the summer wears on and the fish get wary and feed in lanes 60 to 80+', a Skagit line, floating tip, 15' leader, white yarn indicator on the loop end with 2-3 ' of 4 to 6 pound tippet with a small emerger fly can be very deadly. I use a white yarn indicator, a small one and make a loop at the end of the leader with the neophrene ring in the loop. Next, I loop the 2' to 3' of tippet to that loop and tie on the small emerger. Then, I fish the foam lines or lanes where the fish are hitting the emergers. You cast the indicator out like a dry fly and mend it down stream like a fly.

Orange and bright colored indicators don't work in catch and release waters as the fish have seen thousands of them going down stream attached to a near by fisher. There is so much white stuff natural and man made floating downstream, they usually ignore the white indicator. The long leader works with the leader shy trout, and the little indicator tells you when that size 20 fly has been struck. If they are wary of the white indicator I use a fly indicator with the loop at the tail of the fly for the tippet.

Besides these ways to use indi's and Skagit and Spey line there are othe ways of adapting to tough casting water with a two handed rod.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Mending and indicator use

Great stuff on indy fishing, Grandpa. But help me out. You said: "You cast the indicator out like a dry fly and mend it DOWN(my emphasis) stream like a fly". I was taught to mend the line UPstream of the indicator allowing the line to follow, the indicator to lead, the system down stream. If that's not what you meant, straighten me out.
 

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Lets try the mending again.

clyde olson said:
Great stuff on indy fishing, Grandpa. But help me out. You said: "You cast the indicator out like a dry fly and mend it DOWN(my emphasis) stream like a fly". I was taught to mend the line UPstream of the indicator allowing the line to follow, the indicator to lead, the system down stream. If that's not what you meant, straighten me out.
You are mending the line upstream in most cases to get the indicator down stream. Just treat the indicator like a fly.
 

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Laird of Locharber
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Down stream indys

White indys in foam lines are the way to go,looks like ice too.I could only think an upstream mend would alow a downstream drift.:razz: A 3' length of heavy mono or braided mono attached to the line & then leader is a good place to put rt. angle indy.The indy can be attached at the leader end.I find hard to believe that no one ever mentions having tried SAs new nymph line.The line is mutch like a XLT with a 65.5-67.5 head 5-8 wts.SA states that it is a single handed spey line as well as good for nymphing.I have tried the 5 & 6 wts.& found them too light though the with the 6 I was able to cast the whole head,but it didn't load enough & I am thinking of going to the heaviest nymph line SA makes that being an 8 wt. at 469 gr at 70,wish they had a 9wt.'.:Eyecrazy:
 

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Bird Flu

Either it is being exposed to the partridge in my pear tree or all this talk of indicator fishing for steelhead but I'm suddenly getting quite sick to my stomach. :confused:
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Yes, I agree. Sacrilege! cough, cough, cough:whoa:

Craig,
There is some talk from time to time about the SA Nymph and Steelhead tapers being used on two handers. Some of them work well on the lighter rods.
 

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Take an anti acid and go to another thread about NW fishing

sinktip said:
Either it is being exposed to the partridge in my pear tree or all this talk of indicator fishing for steelhead but I'm suddenly getting quite sick to my stomach. :confused:

Most of us use the 5120 for trout and other fish. If you want to catch trout in most waters, you need to know how to use an indicator when they are not going after a hatch or emergers.

Having said that, I haven't seen a steelhead caught on a fly in the wintertime in N. California using classic casting techniques/systems unless they are dangle trolling behind a drift boat with flies with the exception of the Trinity. Neither has my son and none of his friends who guide and often write for the fishing papers and magazines in this area. The classic systems work with the summer fish, half pounders and the agressive blue backs in late winter.

I will be using my Skagits and sinking tips to try and catch Steelhead this winter. If and when that fails, the indicators will be broken out. If the SH are in really deep water, my striper lines with sinking tips or Outbounds with a long sinking head will be used.

Bah Humbug to all elite brown shirted purists who try to dictate how the rest of us fish.

Merry Christmas to the good people, who try to use the most effective methods of fly fishing to catch a fish and then share those best practices with the rest of us.
 

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Laird of Locharber
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5120 Trout Spey

sinktip said:
Either it is being exposed to the partridge in my pear tree or all this talk of indicator fishing for steelhead but I'm suddenly getting quite sick to my stomach. :confused:
Being this thread is about lining a trout spey,a rod made for nymphing with or with out indicators,I wounder why any one would get the bird flu.Us poor slobs that had to import fish to the GLs, have to fish in colder water to fish that are in deep slots & small pools with spin & a few CP sackers all in a row.If one can find a pool to ones self ,always someone grows roots at the end of your swing.So called fly guys will even make use of Slinkys & only running lines to get a fly down quick in tight spaces. Bottom bouncing to fish that don't want to move to a fly.:eek: My self can't enjoy that way of fishing,so when its too cold to swing one must dead drift small nymphs on light lines.This works for winter steel as well as in trout rivers at any time they are bottom feeding.Wouldn't it be nice if all our takes were on top so we can see them.:D
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Yo Gramps...

Bah Humbug to all elite brown shirted purists who try to dictate how the rest of us fish.
I can not find one place in this thread where anyone said you can not fish however you damn well please. Fishing pleasure is not always about using the "most effective method". Not all of us need big numbers to be fulfilled. Mery Christmas to you as well.
 
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