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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Lines for the learning...

Rod: Loop 14' Yellow Line.
Experience: 20 yrs of single hand, still learning.
Learning to spey properly: Priceless.

What line would you put on it? No multitips for now, as once this skill is learned a bit, I'll know more and invest in something that fits the tastes and skills I'll grow in to. Thinking of a Windcutter 8/9/10, but would a 9/10/11 be better for that rod? What about an Airflo Delta 9/10?

I humbly bow to the eons of experience here to assist in my decision!

-Gus
 

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Relapsed Speyaholic
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I can't speak to the Yellow rod but am sure that a number here can at length. I would advise against the Windcutter though as if you are looking for a floater, why waste your time stripping and shooting line. While I believe the WC is a good line to learn on, I think you are better off with a mid-bellied line. You do not have to strip and shoot as much and you sacrifice little in the learning curve. In fact, while maybe not quite as easy to throw as the WC, a slightly longer line tends to keep you from learning the bad habits that the WC will allow you to get away with.

There are a number of good lines out there in the 65' belly range. Two of the those I would recomend are the Rio Midspey and the Airflo Delta Long.

st
 

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#&%*@^# Caster
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Got to cast the loop yellow at the spey clave and it is a really sweet rod. Good choice.

I am just starting out as well and I went with the mid spey type lines for my 14' rod. I currently have the airflo long delta and a rio midspey with tips.

I had heard all the talk about learning bad habits with the windcutters and deltas and did not want to go that route. Eventually you will want a longer bellied line, that just seems to be the way it is. Also , from others I have talked to it can be a pain to step up from the windcutter to the midspey but not the other way around.

So my logic said I will most likely be using longer bellied lines for the rivers I fish so I elected to get the pain over with right away. Actually it has not been that painful. I had a harder time casting the shorter delta than I have with the long delta. Go figure.

Good luck and you are in for a good time. I am having more fun learning on a double hand rod than I ever did with a single hander. The process of learning to cast a spey rod is almost as fun as catching fish IMHO.


-sean
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Test Line

Gus, Not to disagree with Sinktip's advice which I think is pretty good, if you would like to try a Delta 9/10 on your yellow rod I have a loaner you can use. Your only obligation is to mail it back to me. I think Sean has it now so if you are interested let me know and he can send it down to you.
 

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#&%*@^# Caster
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MJC,

Oops...The line you graciously let me borrow is sitting on my desk. Been a hectic week....Thanks again for letting me borrow it as it really kickstarted my foray into spey casting.

Gus let me know if you are interested and I will direct it your way instead. You can PM me with your address and I will get it in the mail right away.

Nope I am not on westfly. The admin job here with the flyfishingforum and speyclave keeps me plenty busy. Plus I did not think there were any forums around except for us:devil:


-sean
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Test Line

Sean, I don't mind that the line is sitting on your desk. My desk is such a mess I probably couldn't find the line anyway.
 

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I would agree with the previous posts regarding the mid belly lines. You can get away with improper hand arm motions with the short belly lines that once you start moving longer lines can get you in trouble. Biggest fault that you can develop is short strokes. On longer casts you generally want to bring your casting arm as far back and to the side as possible (review Derek Brown's tape). With this long arm motion and a short belly you can often overpower the cast so to compensate you shorten the stroke.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
So I'm thinking...

Leaning toward a 9/10 Delta. Wt based on the Gawesworth chart for Rio lines and brand/model everyone's feedback.

Anyone want to dissuade me before I call Cabela's?

-Gus
 

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Back to the Wincutter

I started Spey casting about 8 years ago with the wincutter. After about 3 years I went to the Mid-spey. Then last year I tried the new orange XLT line and made some of the longest casts of my life. This spring I got to try the Rio Grand Spey. I just loved the distance and the great turnover of this line. On a calm day and I want to show off a little bit I will use the long lines. But, now for fishing and using only one line it is back to the Wincutter or the Air-flow 53 foot head. I mostly fish the Deschutes, Grand Rhonde, Snake, Skeena, and the Thompson. I will catch more fish with the wincutter any day. Much of the time we have wind. When fishing 10 hours a day and trying to drive the long lines out there it is hard on my joints and shoulder. The wincutter will still cast long when it is needed. I use the wincutter and the delta green line interchangebly. Jerry
 

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lines

as has been stated many times, the name of the game is catching fish. as we improve our casting it feels great as we reach each new level. our egos soar as we make those long casts. i must admit however that probably my biggest mistake is that i cast too far more often than too short.that in my rush for the next long cast i even pick up my cast before it has finished the swing. i just cant wait to make that next ego satisfying bullet cast,and reach the aggressive fish willing to hold and or travel in the fast water.when i use a long delta ,as i did last summer, it promotes that fault even more. i dont want to have and less line out than the sweet length or my casts wont be as pretty. beau
 

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gstrand

Buy Simon's video, Rio's International Spey Casting. Watch it and learn how he does the double spey.

Try the Delta line that has been offered to you. It's free and will not cost you to try it.

If it works buy it.

If you don't like it, buy Rio's new MidSpey that is recommended for your rod.

I wish that someone had told me not to buy the WC and to buy the Mid Spey floating line first.

Again, step one buy Simon's Video, International Spey Casting and learn the easy way to do a double spey.
 

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Just because one has a long belly line does not mean you have to cast it 90 feet. The long belly lines generally cast as well as the WC at 40 to 60 feet. They do not shoot as well as a WC but shoot ok so you can still carry 50 feet and shoot 20 if need be. They also mend more redily than the WC. I guess I do notseem many benefits of the WC over the long belly lines except you do not need a reel the size of a small car to put them on!

The long Delta and MidSpey are great intermediate lines that probably make sense for many that rarely if ever fish beyond 70 or 80 feet.
 

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While I prefer to cast and fish long belly lines - that is what I learned with, I am finding myself using the mid-belly lines more often lately. The deciding factor for me is the amount of stripping I will have to do based on the average fishing cast distance. I do not want to be be carrying 15-20 long loops for each cast like I would regularly have to do on the Thompson, however, on smaller rivers where a 60-80' cast might be considered 'long" the mid-belly lines are great. With the grains more concentrated in the shorter head the rod loads easily at the shorter distances and you only need to make a few strips to prepare for the next cast.

The problem I see with the really short bellies is that for even short casts one needs to to make several strips to get the head to the tip of the rod. For me this is more of a personal issue - I just don't like stripping a whole lot of line before each cast.

Beau, I agree, going from a Wind-Cutter/Delta - type line to a Mid Spey/Long Delta should not prove to be much of an issue. The slightly longer stroke isn't too big an adjustment. However, to jump from a Windcutter to a longbelly like an XLT would prove befuddling to most.

While I think that the best line for someone is the one they like - they all work and they all have their strenghth and their weaknesses - I still maintain that for a beginning speycaster the mid-spey designs are the best option. They, first of all, are great fishing lines in and of themselves and secondly they offer the developing caster either option of "other" lines types. The step "down" (in belly length) to the short bellies will be easy and the step "up" to longer belly lines will not be too much of a jump. However, unless one haunts the mighty Thompson on a regular basis it is my bet that most people will opt to stay with mid-belly design.
 

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Speyshop's Speybum
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GREAT CHOICE FOR A FIRST ROD

I have one of these rods on my try rack

I have cast it with the following lines.
Rio
Windcutter 8/9/10
Mid Spey 9/10
Granspey 8/9
SA
Mastery 8/9 and 9/10
Xlt 8/9

It seemed to like any of the above lines.
Will be working with Loop Adapted Lines shortly.

As for a place to start here is how I start a new caster out.
I use Grandspeys for what I call training wheels allowing the student to pick the length of line, which suits his stature and developing style, the best.
Once he finds a balance I will usually move to a Mid-Length line.
Holding the Windcutter and head casting for the last lines to learn how to cast.
In doing this way I think the development of bad habits is less and caster will be able to cast all the lines.
Casting all lines is very important to becoming a good Speycasters.

I know most of you do not have this option of a lot of lines to use.
But see what you can borrow that is what I did for years.

Hope this helps
 

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Speyshop's Speybum
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Yeah You Betcha

IMHO
Those people who try to learn Speycasting without instruction sooner or later will seek it or not achieve to prophecy to their brothers who did. Fly-fishing has always been passed on though Mentors and Instructors

We for years started students out with a line, which was one weight over this, helped people feel the rod.
As you remember just a few years ago before the advent of “Speylines” most people fished a 120-ft. Salmon Double Tapers.
These long lines kept people from wanting to cast the whole head.
This is one reason I like the Grand over the Mid or Longdelta.
I know there is now way that a new caster will cast the head and this take on more things out of the equation for him to think about.
The Grandspey is like a set to training wheels on bike to be removed when the rider is comfortable.
There are those people that say Grande and Xlt’s are for experts only I do not know if this is true or not.
I think only time will tell me that.
The way thing is going we may be back to 120ft Double tapers

I hope this clears things up.
 

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Speybum re Grand Spey Training Wheels

Very interesting.

Are your Grand Spey training wheels, the floating Grand Speys?

Would you please specify what exactly you mean by stature in this comment: "I use Grandspeys for what I call training wheels allowing the student to pick the length of line, which suits his stature and developing style, the best.!"

I think that I know, but I don't want to interpert in the wrong way.
 

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Speyshop's Speybum
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Yes the Flaoting

I perfer to use floating lines that have not been cut.
I feel ( IMHO) that the loops add weight and unnecessary hindges to the which will hinder the learning proccess.

The new caster need every break he or she can get.

Most of my students start with shop rod that are balanced for the personal preferences.
:)
 

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Spey Bum

I agree with the old loops, more on the new loops below.

Last year when I was struggling and trying to learn, I was advised to buy the MS 6/7 floating line and replace my WC 678 with it. Then, I should watch Simon do his Double Spey in his video International Spey Casting for a week. Then try the MS 6/7 with my 7136 with at least 50+ feet of line plus a long leader and fly outside of my rod. Then forget all the bs about mice and other distractions.

I bought the MS 6/7 floater and put it on my reel. I bought the video and watched it for a week or so. Then I went out and could not believe how easy it was to cast.

So you are on the right track.

Re the new hinges that Rio now has. I really can't see nor feel the new hinges that Rio has on my new MS 7/8 with tips. Nor do I get that damn hinging effect on my longer casts with the floating tip or with the tip compensator and sinking tips.
 
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