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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am getting close to purchasing a new rod. Well, really, a new rod and line system. My favorite fishing is summer steelhead with waking flies. My flies are somewhat wind-resistant muddler/bomber variants. What are the favorite lines for this type of fishing to keep line rating down and still turn over the wind-resistant flies?

Line/rod will probably be something in the 7 or 8 wt. range (< 8/9) and no lighter, since this will be my first high-end spey rod after spey casting for 10 years.

Comments on favorite rods for this would be welcome also. Right now I am leaning toward the Burkie 7141 or 8141, but hope to also try the Meiser 14-foot 7/8 Highlander.

--Bill
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Bill,
How does your present 7/8 line turn over those sparrows?
 

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I've been using the wulff triangle taper for close to 4 years for casting waking muddlers using the Sage 7136 and Burkie 7141. As long as the day is not windy I can turn over that fly on a 15' leader out to 90 feet easily.
 

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There is some discussion on this in the thread on skagit for summer use - I would think a skagit with a floating tip would easily turn over any fly you wanted to throw - despite what some would say, it is quite easy to manipulate the short heads and control your skater out to any normal distance you would be fishing a skater.

Any quality 7 wt spey rod should be able to meet your needs - I use my Scott ARC 1287 for skating quite a bit up on the N Umpqua and it handles the big flies easily
 

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Pullin' Thread
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I fish Bombers quite often with a riffle hitch in summer/fall usually tied on #6 Daiichi 2220 (4XL) hooks. Since I prefer to fish the longer belly lines, I've found the GrandSpey, MidSpey, and Long Delta to be very good at turning over the rather wind resitant Bomber. Any of the GrandSpey lines will do this, and the MidSpey and Long Delta of 7/8 and larger will do so too; therefore, it is really a matter of which line wt, length, and action you want to get.

Me? I personally like the Meiser Highlanders (any of them, although I use my 16' 8/9 most), Loomis Grease Liners, and T&T's.
 

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Go with your first thoughts.....forget buyers remorse...

Bill,

I think you've answered your own THREAD! now could it be that your wanting us to agree with your choice's, well you know that's nearly impossible here. A mix bag of ideas..is all you'll get.

As for me..I think you've made the correct, and I don't say this lightly or without a working history, but the Burkie is hands down, the best of the lot....

Tom
 

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Released to spawn
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Choices..

I would go for the 14' Loomis GLX, and Rio WC 8/9/10. This has worked well for large bombers (up to 4" tried so far).

Mike
 

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I would go for the 14' Loomis GLX, and Rio WC 8/9/10. This has worked well for large bombers (up to 4" tried so far).

Mike
SpeyDucer, a 4" Bomber? Really? Damn! I gotta order more fly boxes! Maybe I can get some Kingfisher tobacco tins from WG.
 

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Jack Cook
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Leaders

As a full blown dry fly junkie I have to say that whether you use a 6/7 or an 1e1/12 the line weight has much less to do with turning over big dries than th leader. A leader with the wrong body will not continue the turnover energy in the fly line. A leader with a consistency which is similar to the fly line will continue the energy flow all the way to the fly and hence, turnover.

I use Maxima and make my own leaders. Generally 25# or so is a good butt section, it depends on the fly line. The butt must batch the tip of the fly line for turnover.

The Burkies you suggest are nice. He has another line called 'Vintage'. These have a terrific dry line feel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Thanks for the responses. A few comments.

Poppy, I'm insulted. ;) Do you really think my flies are big? No wonder you won't fish them!:rolleyes: Your loss. You can send them back for a complete refund.:smokin:

I prefer mid-belly or longer lines for most summer fishing. My previous line was a TT 9/10, which I found pretty poor for turning over these flies. For the last 2 or three summers I have been fishing an Airflo Trad 7/8, which has been much better for turnover, and I haven't really had an issue.

The reason I asked the question is that when lines such as the Carron came out, then later the Nextcast and others, people including myself remarked on the powerful turnover. The thread on the Nextcast Winter Authority made me think that there is probably a reasonably-priced (not Carron) line that has superior turnover for my purposes.

Also, since I'm buying a new rod, I want the whole setup to be optimum for my greatest spey joy. My current rod will be an excellent winter rod, when the time comes for more winter fishing. (I.e when basketball no longer interferes with winter steelheading. Speaking of, off topic, Olga had 17 points tonight including 4/8 on three-pointers.)

My leaders are typically 12 to 13 feet, all Maxima Chameleon, starting at 30 lb and finishing with 10 lb. tippet. No particular formula, but it probably comes to about 45/35/25% butt/taper/tippet. Hard to say explicitly, since my "taper" uses long sections of large diameter that are really then part of the butt section, going to short sections as I approach the tippet.

What is this about the "Vintage" line of Burkie rods? I talked to Kerry and Rob this week and didn't hear mention of it.

Thanks again for the comments...more are welcome.

--Bill
 

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loco alto!
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Bill - just a thought - some people talk of having a rod that they don't like, until that one day when the magic line comes along to awaken it - and this may be true. But for me, I tend to know upfront whether a certain rod has a feel that fits me naturally, by the flex profile and the pace and the feedback that it gives to me. For me the line becomes gravy, and it can be very sweet gravy, but it is not the fundamental enabler that turns a poorly-matched rod into a perfect fit. Some rods just feel right from the start providing they're at all reasonably lined. Likewise, with the correct rod in hand, I accept that it may take a little time before I find the perfect line. We've all experienced that feeling where we know within 1 or 2 casts whether a particular rod is a natural fit. Go with instinct, by feel.

and if it were me tossing your flies (which happens time to time), I'd be choosing a rod for 7/8 lines that loads short, and which won't collapse going far.
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Poppy, I'm insulted. Do you really think my flies are big? No wonder you won't fish them! Your loss. You can send them back for a complete refund.
I love those flies!!! Also I really like the guy that tied them and I get a great deal of pleasure out of looking at them. I don't fish them because after one of them takes a ride with my "wham bam" casting style it will not look so good. That being said one of them will be taking a swim off the end of my (new to me) Shapes rod this Fall.

My point is/was if the line you have now is working with those bigger flies why not look for something that is currently made along those same lines. No pun intended.

I'm sure I can find some NextCast lines for you to test drive when your ready. They do seem to turn over nicely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Speyman, I heard from Rob and the "Vintage" rod is a components upgrade including a blackened nickel silver Struble reel seat and blackened nickel silver agate guides, not a different line of rods.

Poppy, glad to hear you'll let my flies go swimming. They are pretty durable, and of course the fish don't care much about appearance anyway. The steelhead just deserve my best.

I know I can find a line that turns over similar to the Trad, which I have been very happy with, but based on my limited test casting, it just seems that there may be some that are even better. There may be lines that will turn over better on those particularly long casts where energy may be going into shooting line rather than turnover. (or on poor casts that otherwise might not turnover!)

Steve, thanks for the comments. That is why my expectation is for the 7141, since it seemed a natural fit last year, feeling good to me from the first cast. But since this is a big investment for me, I'm checking to be sure there isn't something even better!

Speyhead, you're definitely right about forgetting buyer's remorse! But I'm certain I won't have any remorse anyway.

--Bill
 

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JD
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Fwiw

For greased line work, I use the original XLT lines and Maxima Chameleon for leader material. I would also consider the Nextcast long belly. Interesting point someone brought up greased line fishing the N. Umpqua. While I love my long belly lines, there aren't a lot of places on the N. U. where you have enough room to take advantage of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've seen several posts regarding the unsuitability of long-belly lines on the NU. I believe that people who don't like the long belly on the NU must be uncomfortable casting over their left shoulder on river right.

I consider the NU my "home" river, though it is not near. While I am always learning more, I know the river reasonably well and I think mid- and long-belly lines are fine for much, probably most, of the NU.

The vast majority of holes below Steamboat are fine for the long belly, at least when fished from the road side. Upriver of Steamboat, shorter heads can be a definite advantage, but there are still many places where the long belly is fine.

If there is limited room behind the caster, then casting over the left shoulder from river right will typically provide 20 to 30 more feet for the D-loop! (Assuming a 30 degree tilt of the casting plane, and casting quartering downstream at a 30 degree angle from the bank, using a 14 foot rod, provides an additional 28 feet of room for the D-loop, assuming a straight line of bankside barrier.)

This is huge, and the choice to cast only over the right shoulder on river right may be the reason some people claim the NU is unsuitable for long bellies.

--Bill
 

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JD
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Long Bellies & the NU

Bill,

I agree with you on most everything you said about the NU. Especially the river right casting over the right shoulder scenario, which is a topic I have often thought worthy of discusion. Although myself being a lefty, I do well on river right casting over the left shoulder from the road side. Could be you know the NU better than I. But I do not like trying to cast a long line while standing on a rock completly out of the water. And I know of only one or two places that allow wading down through the whole run. Wanna fish together sometime?
 

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Hi Bill - Lower Clay comes to mind:)

Other than that I agree long bellies work well for most runs below Steamboat but lately with a bad shoulder throwing a skagit set up really makes life a whole lot easier!!

Best regards,
Rick J
 
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