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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Discussion Starter #1
Alright... pop quiz:

You're on the left bank, upriver wind. You need to make 90 degree angle casts. What are your options?

1) Single spey of course
2) snap/circle spey
3) perry poke

and now the 4) the DOUBLE SNAKE!

Before you hit the video link here's an explanation (that should tell you how bad the video came out, I will make another)...

Left bank upriver wind, from the dangle make a smooth lift and pull a straight line upriver across in front at the height of the lift. Make sure you get the end of the line moving.

Once this straight path of initial acceleration passes across in front of you, make the first wave of a snake roll out toward the target (middle of the river) on your upriver right hand side.

Then simply pull a D-loop against that wave as you do with a regular snake roll and you have an anchor at 90 or more degrees change, piece of cake!

Click Here for Video Clip

Rod: 14'3" 7/8 Solstice, feather light, smooth as butter but powerful enough to toss the whole line

The cast is not revolutionary but it's evolutionary. Named to mimic the double spey which pulls the line across to change sides from the single spey, etc. Some guys will think of any way to snake more, snake more often! :lildevl:
 

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Why take something so simple and elegant as the single spey and clutter it into making 55 moves to accomplish the same end result? :chuckle:

William
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Discussion Starter #4
inland said:
Why take something so simple and elegant as the single spey and clutter it into making 55 moves to accomplish the same end result? :chuckle:

William
Not every cast is for every caster, I agree. My best cast is definitely the single spey, both sides (right and left). It's the consumate spey cast. I cast left-hand up on the off-side and really enjoy the refinement of my left-up change of direction cast, in fact used that to pass my cert for the long change single. So as far as elegance and simpicity, I could not agree more.

However, number of moves is a weak argument as there is precisely one move more in the double snake than there is in a single spey and less than in the snap/circle spey.



... and I only added the "sweep" for completeness sake. One could argue that:
  • In both cases every component is an uninterrupted and continuous sequence - unlike the double spey or snap/circle spey which involves an extra 'drop' with dead line to defeat, which there is none here
  • It has no more moves than Steve Choate's spiral single, except the spiral is made on the other side of the body and toward the middle of the river instead of the dangle side toward the bank

55 moves? 5 is more like it, and precisely one more than a single spey and LESS than a snap/circle spey. In fact every good snake roller knows that the formation of the snake is really just a continuous elongation of the d-loop move (backcast).

I guess elegance is in the eye of the beholder... some feel the snake is the most elegant of all spey casts.
 

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OK . . . but wouldn't Snake Poke be a better name? From what I can see in the video, it just looks like a slight modification of the Perry Poke. Poke is an upstream grip and Snake is a downstream grip. It seems as if adding Snake as a descriptor to Poke is much less confusing (especially because of the grip). It's much more like a Perry Poke than a Double Spey. Just my humble opinion.
B
 

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Double Snake?

Went out this morning and tried Juro's version of the Double Snake. Came up with a slight change and call it the "Figure of Eight" Snake. The difference is on the pick-up. Use a crescent move towards the bank in the forming the first part of the "Figure of Eight" move and then into the snake roll cast when the line passes your Angle of Aim (180). For me the "Figure of Eight" puts the line towards the center of the stream a tad bit more making the snake easier to excute. I like the cast, it seems to be graceful and powerful. Give the spey community a little time and all sorts of casts bubble to the surface. Klem
 

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Will go along with Inland's first post about the Single spey being a simple elegant cast and why clutter it up. I am slowly learnign how to cast Left hand up so I can use a single spey on both sides of the river. Just my .02 cents.
Leroy.........................
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Discussion Starter #10
wrke said:
OK . . . but wouldn't Snake Poke be a better name? From what I can see in the video, it just looks like a slight modification of the Perry Poke. Poke is an upstream grip and Snake is a downstream grip. It seems as if adding Snake as a descriptor to Poke is much less confusing (especially because of the grip). It's much more like a Perry Poke than a Double Spey. Just my humble opinion.
B
Bill -

Perhaps it's a product of bad video but I can't agree at all - there is no poke component in this cast whatsoever, although a while back I posted a similar TIC post about a cast I dubbed the "snake poke". Wow I guess the bad video is not working!

It's simply a way to do a snake roll on the upriver side instead of the downriver side, that's it!

It does so by making an initial motion to put the line upriver then draws an aerial snake roll from that path of acceleration.

The only touch is the grip of the anchor, no poke involved. I assume we're talking about the same perry poke of Skagit casting fame?

1) from the dangle, make the lift
2) without stopping, cast the line straight as an arrow to the upstream side
3) make a snake roll against that elongated line on the upriver side

No pokes about it. Going slow up until the last stop before a forward cast seems to work best.

Sorry about the poor clip!
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Discussion Starter #11
Klem said:
Went out this morning and tried Juro's version of the Double Snake. Came up with a slight change and call it the "Figure of Eight" Snake. The difference is on the pick-up. Use a crescent move towards the bank in the forming the first part of the "Figure of Eight" move and then into the snake roll cast when the line passes your Angle of Aim (180). For me the "Figure of Eight" puts the line towards the center of the stream a tad bit more making the snake easier to excute. I like the cast, it seems to be graceful and powerful. Give the spey community a little time and all sorts of casts bubble to the surface. Klem
Not sure I get this from the description... if on left bank at the dangle, and you roll a spiral toward the bank you are starting a sprial single. From a spiral single I can see no way to roll the spiral toward the target on the casting side after sweeping around to the angle of aim :confused:

Can you explain where the arms are or provide some video?
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Discussion Starter #12
peter-s-c said:
OK, I'm game.

I'll admit that I'm very partial to the Snap-C and it's my best upstream wind cast. What does this cast do better than the Snap-C?
Peter -

Thanks for playing.

Better? I'd have two questions for you:

1) What does the snap/circle do better than a single spey?

2) Do you use the double-spey on the right bank downriver anchor or the snake roll? Which is better?

It's subjective mon! Which is better to you? Well that's all that counts.

But OK I'll play too.. my answer to your question (why better):

The double snake eliminates a dead-line situation created by the dropping of the line into the water by the snap/circle spey. This dead line and stick must be overcome with an additional move. The DS also creates significantly less disturbance on the water, touching only a light grip verses the snap, white mouse and exit disturbance from the water. It's much faster, thus increases fishing time by reducing casting time which is among the core reasons to fish spey.

Better is subjective, just like your post. Better to you is not better to me, etc. It's just another cast. The question is whether it's good or not, not better.

.02
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Discussion Starter #13
speyrd said:
Will go along with Inland's first post about the Single spey being a simple elegant cast and why clutter it up. I am slowly learnign how to cast Left hand up so I can use a single spey on both sides of the river. Just my .02 cents.
Leroy.........................

Leroy -

This cast really has nothing to do with left/right coverage. It's simply an upriver snake verses a downriver snake.

I didn't understand the "cluttering" comment the first time from inland, but since it came up again can you explain how one cast "clutters" another? Does the snap/circle also clutter the single spey? How about the perry poke? Does the snake roll "clutter" the double spey or vice-versa?

Or how about the double-spey cluttering the single? And what about those horrible backhand/reverse casts? ;) :wink: :lildevl:

My philosophy - practice them all. They all hold a lesson for the caster within their execution.
 
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