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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Video and photos are what I use to help people with their casting, here is a simple explanation of what’s happening
come fish with me and I can take years off your learning curve 😎
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Internet Scientist
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One of the hard things to explain, especially to seasoned single hand casters with limited two-hand casting experience, is how does the top hand get to the position in the last pic from the position in the second to last pic without the rod tip traveling in an arc, versus a straight-ish line.
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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One of the hard things to explain, especially to seasoned single hand casters with limited two-hand casting experience, is how does the top hand get to the position in the last pic from the position in the second to last pic without the rod tip traveling in an arc, versus a straight-ish line.
Easy to demonstrate in person but the top hand simply goes out in a straight line thus the rod tip tracks true, the power comes from the bottom hand not the top. This diagram from a old swisher and Richard’s book explains it well too
 
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Of note, a Q & A (see attached images) from Trout & Salmon magazine (UK) May 2008- where the role of the upper hand, indeed using both hands, is mentioned. Answering readers questions was noted salmon angler and author, Crawford Little.

In a similar vein, UK professional casting instructor Michael Evans describes (in general) as an introduction on his instructional videos, the theory behind spey casting being akin to trying to flick a lump of clay from the tip of the rod- by flexing the rod back and forth using both hands to do so.

Mr Evans qualifications (from his 2022 website): Vice President of the Game Angling Instructors Association, Holder of the Advanced Professional Game Angling Instructor qualification, also holder of the Salmon & Trout Association National Instructors Certificate (STANIC).

Malcolm

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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2,707 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Of note, a Q & A (see attached images) from Trout & Salmon magazine (UK) May 2008- where the role of the upper hand, indeed using both hands, is mentioned. Answering readers questions was noted salmon angler and author, Crawford Little.

In a similar vein, UK professional casting instructor Michael Evans describes (in general) as an introduction on his instructional videos, the theory behind spey casting being akin to trying to flick a lump of clay from the tip of the rod- by flexing the rod back and forth using both hands to do so.

Mr Evans qualifications (from his 2022 website): Vice President of the Game Angling Instructors Association, Holder of the Advanced Professional Game Angling Instructor qualification, also holder of the Salmon & Trout Association National Instructors Certificate (STANIC).

Malcolm

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While not entirely wrong it’s all very old school ……speycasting has come a long ways as can be witnessed by the vast advancement in lines and rods and of course the technique that has forced those changes
 

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😂 I think you made my point Bruce by showing pics from a single hand casting instruction book.
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
'Not entirely wrong...old school..'- that's a relief- as I only use bamboo....;)

Malcolm
Your boo could work better for you if you adopt the bottom hand powers and top hand only steers 😏
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
😂 I think you made my point Bruce by showing pics from a single hand casting instruction book.
I have found that good to great single hand casters are good at the tracking part keeping the top hand out of the anchor/D loop equation is much harder
 

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Bruce, first let me say that I admire your ability to cast 105' without shooting any line (assuming 15' rod, 70' head, 20' of poly and mono combined). From a casting improvement standpoint, I've heard that ability may help improve one's spey casting in general.

The question I have relates to the amount of energy you expend compared to the very relaxed inside-the -box method used by those who simply shoot 35' of line with a scandi head to get the same distance? In addition, when they decide to cast 70' or less, like many summer-run tributaries often require, they simply continue to cast their full shooting head using their same technique and, because of that, can cast relatively heavy flies for both casts. Am I wrong in suggesting that with your long belly you have to strip in more than half the weight of your head to reduce your cast to 70'? If that is correct, how does that affect the ability to carry flies on the upper limit of that full line--especially when there is limited room for a large D-loop?
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Bruce, first let me say that I admire your ability to cast 105' without shooting any line (assuming 15' rod, 70' head, 20' of poly and mono combined). From a casting improvement standpoint, I've heard that ability may help improve one's spey casting in general.

The question I have relates to the amount of energy you expend compared to the very relaxed inside-the -box method used by those who simply shoot 35' of line with a scandi head to get the same distance? In addition, when they decide to cast 70' or less, like many summer-run tributaries often require, they simply continue to cast their full shooting head using their same technique and, because of that, can cast relatively heavy flies for both casts. Am I wrong in suggesting that with your long belly you have to strip in more than half the weight of your head to reduce your cast to 70'? If that is correct, how does that affect the ability to carry flies on the upper limit of that full line--especially when there is limited room for a large D-loop?
Here’s a video from the morning this photo series was shot that shows not much effort is expended for a cast that a scandi will not even come close To in distance
no need for a large D loop ever as you control the D with anchor placement and are my hands really leaving the box? My box just happens to have no top or nothing in front but my hands always stay in front even with my shoulders 😏
I only like big rivers but when I do need to cast close I chose tackle that is appropriate and tension is what allows us to cast heavy flies with a fine tapered long line……good casting is good casting small rods with small lines or long lines with long rods
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Not sure what the definition of a large D loop is, however, I think it's pretty unlikely that any line in front of the tip when rod deceleration begins contributes to inertia of motion in the direction of the cast.
The definition of a D loop is any line behind the rod tip on the backcast……It’s the anchor not the D loop that you’re pulling against to make the forward cast 😏
 

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The definition of a D loop is any line behind the rod tip on the backcast……It’s the anchor not the D loop that you’re pulling against to make the forward cast 😏
I think you are partially right. However, try very slowly raising your rod to the firing position with your fly at the hang down and see how well your cast goes with the great anchor but no D loop. It is the mass of the D loop that propels the forward cast, not the anchor
 

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BULL DOG!!!!
Gaelforce
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think you are partially right. However, try very slowly raising your rod to the firing position with your fly at the hang down and see how well your cast goes with the great anchor but no D loop. It is the mass of the D loop that propels the forward cast, not the anchor
Sorry but you are wrong you can have a huge D loop or very little D loop but if you have no anchor what happens 😏🤣
 

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Sorry but you are wrong you can have a huge D loop or very little D loop but if you have no anchor what happens 😏🤣
See, the thing is, both "very little" and large are subjective terms. If the mass of the D loop is too small the cast will fail. Increased mass will carry an increased load--all other factors remaining the same.

The anchor provides resistance to help ensure that the energy created in the D loop is not dissipated moving line and the fly in the opposite direction of the cast.

I'm pretty sure that you know this, however, since this is the "basics" forum,
 
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