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Discussion Starter #1
Last week I was on the Bonaventure working down a wonderful pool where all that was required was an 80-85 ft cast to reach the opposite bank, take a step and repeat. I was on river right with a moderate downstream wind, so snake rolls were called for. I found myself getting into an extremely relaxed slow rhythm throwing effortless snakes as I worked down the pool (1398 Burkie, Carron Jetstream).

What I found was this: After a short while I noticed I wasn't producing an anchor, my leader came very close, but no grip was formed. I "corrected" my casts and it required more effort to produce an anchor. So I went back to my zen-like, leisurely no-grip snake finishing out the 150 yd long pool.
Without a grip, is it a Spey cast? Have you ever found yourself doing this?

My lift was slow and moderately high, snake loop fairly small.

Bill
 

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chrome-magnon man
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Hi Bill!

When we developed the acceptable definitions for the question "what is a speycast?" for the FFF we settled on a definition that included an anchor. Howver, in overhead casting we have casts that don't really include a typical backcast (such as the Belgian or Oval Cast, and the Galway Cast--which has no backcast at all, just two forward casts), so can we have a spey cast that does not have an anchor?

So, everything remained in the air, right? So it's an aerialized snake!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You're right, Dana
Let's call it an aerialized snake. It worked beautifully, effortlessly. But my question remains . . . has anyone else found themselves doing this? Seemed fine to me, but it doesn't fit the accepted definition of a Spey cast. Was I doing something wrong that could have made it even more effortless??
Bill

BTW, later that day I found that I needed to make 110' casts on another pool where I did have a grip.
 

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Hey Bill!

Hey Bill. It was good to chat with you last week at camp about spey fishing. You were telling me about the Scierra lines but I neglected to ask you your advice on a straight floating line. What would you recomend? I am using the Rio windcutter with the interchangeable tips. I'd like to fish something without all the loops and connections. You thoughts?

BTW. we went to C&D on the Bonaventure the last day and for the most part could not get a spot on the river. I have never seen that many people fishing. How did you and Bob make out the last day?

regards
tom..
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Tom

Bob and I did much better on D on our next to last day (can't tell you which pools here) . . . 4 fish all on dead drift dries. Last day we left early as we were up on the branches on the Grande and there was very little water. It had just continued to drop. No fish.

Regarding lines, probably the most useful (unless you consistently need really long casts) is the 65' Carron Jetstream. It's a line that just wants to form beautiful, tight loops and is far and away my favorite medium length line. Since you're used to the windcutter (54' head) I'd recommend the medium head (65') instead of the longer one. When I know I'll always need longer casts and want to minimize stripping, I use the SA XLT (the 8/9 has a 95' head).

One word of caution: The way Carron rates their lines is using the old AFTM guidelines for single handed lines (the first 30' of the 10/11 weighs the same as a 10 wt single line whose belly is only 30' or 35'). It's more like an 8/9 spey line. My 1398 Burkie is rated a 7/8/9. If I know I don't need really long casts, I use a 10/11 Jetstream most of the time. The rod also fishes a 9/10 very nicely. I haven't tried the new Ian Gordon Partridge lines (Ian also designed them after he split with Carron) but the design I hear is very similar.

PM me if you need any help determining the size to get.

Good to chat with you. Maybe you should post a pic of your 30 pounder.
Best,
Bill
 

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Thanks Bill

Thanks for the info Bill. I'll check into those and let you know how it turns out.

Have a good one

Regards
tom....
 

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chrome-magnon man
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Bill,

I was experimenting with this both single and double hand over the summer. I found it a great move when fishing dries because keeping the fly out of the water helped to dry it out between casts. Required less room than an overhead backcast.

With the Spey rod, how much effort were you putting in to the backcast? Did you find that it all just flowed nicely or were you consciously putting a little more "ooomph" in to the "D loop" formation?
 

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wrke said:
Hi Tom

Bob and I did much better on D on our next to last day (can't tell you which pools here) . . . 4 fish all on dead drift dries. Last day we left early as we were up on the branches on the Grande and there was very little water. It had just continued to drop. No fish.

Regarding lines, probably the most useful (unless you consistently need really long casts) is the 65' Carron Jetstream. It's a line that just wants to form beautiful, tight loops and is far and away my favorite medium length line. Since you're used to the windcutter (54' head) I'd recommend the medium head (65') instead of the longer one. When I know I'll always need longer casts and want to minimize stripping, I use the SA XLT (the 8/9 has a 95' head).

One word of caution: The way Carron rates their lines is using the old AFTM guidelines for single handed lines (the first 30' of the 10/11 weighs the same as a 10 wt single line whose belly is only 30' or 35'). It's more like an 8/9 spey line. My 1398 Burkie is rated a 7/8/9. If I know I don't need really long casts, I use a 10/11 Jetstream most of the time. The rod also fishes a 9/10 very nicely. I haven't tried the new Ian Gordon Partridge lines (Ian also designed them after he split with Carron) but the design I hear is very similar.

PM me if you need any help determining the size to get.

Good to chat with you. Maybe you should post a pic of your 30 pounder.
Best,
Bill

Bill, et. al. exactly the same line and rod. A combo of the GODS!
Fred
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Dana said:
Bill,

I was experimenting with this both single and double hand over the summer. I found it a great move when fishing dries because keeping the fly out of the water helped to dry it out between casts. Required less room than an overhead backcast.

With the Spey rod, how much effort were you putting in to the backcast? Did you find that it all just flowed nicely or were you consciously putting a little more "ooomph" in to the "D loop" formation?
Dana

Sorry it took a while to reply . . . just got back from 2 weeks in New Brunswick. Great trip. On the river I fish in the fall, I've found aerial snakes especially useful because the rocks occasionally make anchors impossible . . . you can see in a couple pics of my friend (attached).

I've not found that I've consciously added "ooomph". Possibly for a couple of reasons . . . 1) sometimes I'm high off the water (rocks) or am not wading very deep and 2) most of the time I guess I'm unconscious ;-)

Glad to hear you've found the aerial snake useful . . . I've also used it on dry and skated dries.

Bill
 

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Aerialized snake...or anti-Skagit??

Yes, I've stumbled across that one too. It's fun but only works for me with certain rod/line combinations. My only idea of why is the amount of energy stored in the snake--with nearly continuous movement there's not much energy lost...making an anchor less important. Guess this goes the opposite way of the sustained anchor, eh? :rolleyes:
 

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Now you,ve got me intrigued/inspired - I,m off to the river tomorrow,might just give the aerial snake a go:))) .Hope the big Catfish are hungry for some Dee style patterns:). I can think of a couple of spots that cast would come in handy. Seems like we are moving further down the SH/DH crossover path:)) or just heading along the "whatever it takes- we're FISHING" path:). tight lines!

Will
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Just curious - a question for my good friend Bill Kessler...

Does the fly remain in front of the angler in this maneuver or does the continous loading sans anchor require that the fly fly round the spiral so to speak?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hi Juro
Good question. Yes, the fly remains in front of the angler . . . I believe at most, comes even with him. I'm not positive if it holds true on longer casts (100' or so) . . . I'll get back to you on that. I won't be on the water until this weekend. Having been gone for a couple of weeks, my honeydo list is pretty long (I think I might have to bale my grass today after I get it cut).
Bill
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Looking at those photos, I know I would take a very long honey-do list in stride to be on those rocks!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Carl said:
My only idea of why is the amount of energy stored in the snake--with nearly continuous movement there's not much energy lost...making an anchor less important.
Carl
I think you've got it.
Bill
 
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