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Discussion Starter #1
Yesterday, I was on our local crummy river, the Napa River with my new ARC 1409. I had just replaced my GS floating tip with the Lumi Lux 15' tip, 3' of tippet and a size 4 nymph.

I was river right with the river flowing downstream and the tides started to flow up stream. That created an eddy where I was making my D loops. Then the wind came up stream and swirled around. Suddenly my Double Speys were having problems.

Being to stubborn to stop, I borrowed an ugly casting technique from my son, the Cromagnon caster. He uses this technique on the American River Spey fishing in eddies and upwind situations with his sinking tips and a heavy shad fly with high river flows.

He starts with a double spey and aborts it about halfway through the first part of this mess and reverses the rod direction. That leaves a pile of line to the right and some downstream of you.

Then he does a big D loop and casts out with a cast resembling the underhand cast with a high release and banging the butt of the rod into his gut while holding the rod up high for the entire cast.

When I tried this and everything worked, I was casting out all of the GS head to the color change just outside my reel. The casts went across river high and dropped way out in the river. This abortion worked on the lower Rogue this fall in similiar situations with a GS floater and my Sage 7141.

Is this a cast? Or is it some monster thing my son the Cromag Caster has developed, and I inherited it from him?:eyecrazy:
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Hey Grandpa Spey...

Who cares if it's a cast. By your own admission the line is going out there. I say if it ain't broke, don't worry about it.
 

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Well the name "perry poke" has been taken ..

what shall we call it's 'ugly baby brother?'
:hehe:
 

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Sounds like

a cast Ed Ward uses off the right bank. He sets the anchor as he would for a double, then drops the line to the water by lowering the rod but off the left hip, then into a dynamic D. He makes it look smooth and easy.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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sean said:
Yeah Juro invented it...just ask him:rolleyes: :D <images>
No more creeper recipes for you! ;):p :chuckle:

On a serious note, after further review I withdraw my request for acknowledgement of the aforementioned "snake poke" cast, since it's impossible to say who fumbled into it before I did. I am quite happy that the name stuck though, because perry roll sounds pretty bad.
:razz: :smokin:
 

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well wher WAS the anchor at the point of DRIVE,i'm sure i'm doing textbook casts:eyecrazy: if you could do the cast time after time ,,,well,,wher's the video,,,:D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Fred et al, re what to name this mess

I spoke to my son, Chris the Cromag caster tonight on the phone.

I asked him what he called this cast, and he said that he called it, "The ugly catch 20 to 30 shad in a few hours cast!"

So how about the Ugly Shad Poke!;)
 

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"Shad Poke?"

CroMag has spent too many hours fishing in Nor. Cal. This sounds like a "Man's Cast.' Lets not be a 'Wossie' here.
:D
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re the shad running

No, the shad aren't running. They start showing in May and last until about the first of July.
 

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Joan and I lived in Healdsburg, CA for many

years (moved from there up here to So. Oregon) and gotta admit, had more fun fishing for shad than winter run steelhead. The Russian could be blown out for weeks on end with heavy rains.

The shad season normally had low to moderate clear water flows. Not often, but I did have a few days where I hooked 40-50 fish in a morning. On a 5 or 6 wt fly rod .... A total gas!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Fredaevans re the Russian

The Russian has been blown out most of the last part of December and all of this year.

I have never had a big shad day on the Russian. On the American I have had a few 20 plus fish days. There is no way that I would use 5 or 6 weight rod on the American. I have seen 5 and 6 weight rods snapped or kill the shad getting them in.

A couple of times my 7136 was over powered. My 7141 or Bob Meiser's 7/8 switch rod are able to handle the fish, and I don't have to back up and lose my place in line to land the fish. I just reel in with those rods and pull the fish up and grab it.

My son, the CroMag Caster, uses his 9140 and most of the good American River spey shad fishers use a nine weight. The river flows are really heavy and a big hen loaded with eggs can turn sideways and overpower most rods. I will be trying my new Scott ARC 1409 this year. I will try Meis's new ocean rod when there is a line up of fishers.
 

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EAT IT!!!
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Hey Guys, not to break up your Shad conversation, but getting back to the original question of this thread, the cast kinda sounds a lot like what Dana calls a triple spey. Grampa, your description wasn't terribly detailed, but that is what I got out of it. Let me know if I am off track here. I also don't know about the "shad poke." Images of line ripping through the air just don't seem to follow a name like that. :p Hmmmm.
 

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If you are having an upstream wind with the line on your right it still sounds like a possible problem as the line will blow into you during the D loop formation?

When you said reverse rod direction, are you throwing off the left shoulder? The cast that seems to make sense here would be a reverse snap T or snap C that could be accomplished with a perry poke thrown in - this would put the line on your upstream side which would be more favorable with an upstream wind?

It seems to be working for you so maybe my thought process is off?
 

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Why not name it...

Why not just name it as you did in the first post, "The Ugly Mess" cast. Sounds as good as "Snake Roll","Snap T", "Perry Poke", etc., and as long as it works, but may not be aesthetically pleasing, that's as good as any other.

BobK:hehe:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Bob K

Why not: Grampa Spey's Ugly Mess Cast.

It worked again yesterday under high river conditions, swirling winds and a high tide cancelling out a lot of the river flow down stream. ;)
 
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