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Discussion Starter #1
I've started to put together an article on two handed rods. I'd like to do a whole series of articles on different kinds of fishing with two handed rods. One of the things I'm going to try to do is get people to call them two handed rods rather than Spey rods. I don't like the name Spey rod since you can do a lot more with a two handed rod than Spey cast.

What do you think?
 

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Junkyard Spey
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One of the things I'm going to try to do is get people to call them two handed rods rather than Spey rods. I don't like the name

Good luck. A two hander is not always a spey rod but here in North America (at least) just about everyone refers to them as such. We've had some discussions on this before. You can find them in the archives.

From my point of view it's not an issue. It's a great tool no matter what it's called.
 

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Geoff,

With all due respect, since you have only been casting for a month or so, do you feel qualified to write a series of articles on spey rods and fishing with them?

Regarding what rods are called, if you do a search I know this was covered in depth a couple years back on either this site or its precursor.

'tip
 

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Discussion Starter #4
sinktip said:
With all due respect, since you have only been casting for a month or so, do you feel qualified to write a series of articles on spey rods and fishing with them?
Heck no! But it will force me to learn and I like to write. (Although I'm not particularly good at it.)

I don't want to focus on Spey casting. I'd like to focus on two handed rods and how to use them in various fishing situations. In many cases I'll be talking more about overhead casting than Spey casting. As we all know there are some significant advantages to using a two handed rod. I'd like to see how many places I can get a two handed rod to work as well as or better than a single handed rod and then write about it.
 

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Junkyard Spey
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I'll be interested to read your writings. There is a LOT of great info in the Spey Pages Archives, the ISC archives, and the Fly Fishing Forum archives. Those stripers boys on Juro's board can be pretty creative. Some research should give you some great ideas for story lines.
PS, Buy Sean's Meiser switch rod. Great stick at a great price. It will open up a whole new world for you. :smokin:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
MJC said:
I'll be interested to read your writings. There is a LOT of great info in the Spey Pages Archives, the ISC archives, and the Fly Fishing Forum archives. Those stripers boys on Juro's board can be pretty creative. Some research should give you some great ideas for story lines.
Yup! There is a ton of info there. I just want to clear up some of the confusion about two handed rods.

MJC said:
PS, Buy Sean's Meiser switch rod. Great stick at a great price. It will open up a whole new world for you. :smokin:
That's what I'm afraid of. Depends on whether he still has it, and what I can negotiate him down to. ;)
 

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#&%*@^# Caster
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Some stuff to get you started.

I fish overhead on the beaches out here and on Cape Cod during my yearly visits to the east coast. With my move to Rhode Island in a couple months I will be fishing my two handers overhead as much as possible.

There is a difference in my mind between what I would call a two hander for overhead casting and two hander for spey casting. I now call them both two handers but the difference in the action is the key.

With an overhead rod you want a rod that is stong in the tip and middle section to make it easier to lift heavy flies and lines out of the surf and into a nice clean backcast. With more traditional action rods that take a load deeper into the blank they are tough to fish in overhead situations as the all important initial lift and into an overhead backcast is tougher to do with a softer rod. You will find yourself having to use multiple backcasts with softer rods to gets things in line.

Some rods can go both ways and these are usually fast action rods like the CND Atlantis (designed for overhead casting),T&T, Loomis Stinger, Meisers fast switch rods, and most scandanavian rods.

Then it comes down to an issue of fishable length. This can be a point of contention among overhead casters but I strongly believe you want to stay below 13' (I think you are better off staying below 12' if you can).

Overhead fishing, whether it be in salt or freshwater, is much more dynamic than traditional spey casting. You are doing a lot of stripping and casting and having a smaller length rod makes it much easier to tuck the rod under your armpit for a two handed retrieve. Also the longer the rod the more tip bounce you will get on the retrieve which can interfere with feeling a fish take.

Plus shorter means lighter and after a long day of fishing the surf a longer rod will wear you out quicker.

Some say you want longer for more distance but I can hit 150' on my 11'1" atlantis. How much farther do you need to cast?

Becoming a proficient overhead caster on a two hander is harder than you might think. Especially if you are not used to fishing a two hander. It takes a lot of practice but once you get it down and in the right situations a two hander will outperform a single hander any day.

Lines are another issue with overhead fishing. From a previous post of mine:

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General consensus is you want a head to be shorter than 40' and longer than 35'. Around 38' seems to give one the best combo of fishability and casting. With a windcutter type head at 55' it can be a pain to get the head back out the guides after stripping it in. Especially in the surf when you add wave action to the mix. The longer heads will cast farther but I just find them impractical for fishing if you find yourself stripping all the way in to the tip like we do for salmon out here and stripers on the east coast. Too much of a pain to get the head back out of the guides for my taste.

35' heads and shorter just do not do a good job of holding the casting energy and on longer casts the energy will shoot out the line and kill distance.

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Thankfully RIOs new outbound line has solved this issue for us. They are killer tapers and work perfectly for overhead work. Airflo has one as well that was designed for the CND atlantis that rocks but it only comes in one size. We are lucky these lines are now on the market as before it was very difficult finding the right combos for overhead work. We were having to do a lot of chopping and splicing to get what we wanted.

Like most things it is not the end all answer to all fishing situations. Single handers are still more accurate and better at fishing in close. If I am fishing the flats I still bring a single hander along as it is a better tool for the job.

Oh and that meiser is sold but for overhead work it probably is not the best rod. It is one of Bobs more traditional actioned switch rods with are killer for spey casting but if you want a strictly overhead rod give him a call and ask about his faster rods in this series. You will be very pleased with one if you decide to pick one up. The reason I sold it is so I can get one of the faster ones myself.

Once I get settled on the east coast and have a few months fishing under my belt I plan to do a speypages article on overhead casting this winter with input from overhead gurus out there.

Hope this helps some,


-sean
 

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double handed rod

Now this is interesting,
What about a double handed rod, and a switch casting rod,
please tell me the difference, and what a switch cast is ? :saevilw:
 

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loco alto!
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hmmm ... I thought they were salmon rods? :Eyecrazy:

On the left coast, we use some sort of rod overhead to chase salmon. So if we call those particular rods salmon rods, we can just try to remember that they're quite different from those "other" salmon rods

I have the sense you'll have a hard time getting those folks who've worked so hard to establish Speypages, Spey Claves, and Spey Casters to change names anytime soon. Then again, I like the idea of "North Santiam Salmon Casters", though I'm less confident in my ability to cast a salmon very far. :razz:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
SSPey said:
hmmm ... I thought they were salmon rods?
No. Because you can catch more than Salmon on them. :D

SSPey said:
I have the sense you'll have a hard time getting those folks who've worked so hard to establish Speypages, Spey Claves, and Spey Casters to change names anytime soon.
No need to change names. speypages.com, Spey Claves and Spey casters are all devotees of the fine art of Spey casting using a two handed rod. :D

Seriously, let's consider using "two handed rods" rather than Spey rods in order to not limit people's perception of two handed rods as only good for Spey casting.
 

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Hi Geoff

Despite the fact I Spey fish(notice i did,nt say cast:))) for everything from Catfish,Walleye,Carp,Bigmouth Buffalo,Goldeye,Pike,Freshwater Drum, Smallmouth Bass ,Trout and whatever else swims and feeds hereabouts, I don,t think the nomlecature matters- what is exciting and of value and of interest to folks is demonstrating and illuminating that,outside the world of straight back and forth casting there exists a whole world of casting technique called "Spey". The techniques can be adapted to work with what you have or pursued with tackle available that has been designed to specifically complement the various "Spey" techniques, either way it's a means to expand the vocabularly of presentation and problem solving approaches at your disposal.Look at it not as a this or not this /black and white dogma ,but as a means of enhancing/expanding the ability to respond to the multitude of angling scenarios with a greater flexibility than was available before you discovered "Spey":)) Personally I like the word Spey( grew up in Scotland so it may be a nostalgia thing- I also have a "Speyed Not Neutered " T- Shirt which might be the other reason:)))

Will
 

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Here we go again!
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baldmountain said:
Seriously, let's consider using "two handed rods" rather than Spey rods in order to not limit people's perception of two handed rods as only good for Spey casting.

Then my daughters Shakespeare Mickey Mouse rod can be discussed here on this forum! :eek: It's really very versatile, Worms under the Donald Duck bobber, helgrammites and splitshot, Crappies and Catfish, you name it! A fine double hander it is :razz:


Spey rod conveys the intended purpose, for use with the artful group of spey casts. The "Switch" rod is a short spey rod versatile enough to perform spey casts and double :hihi: as an overhead rod, and although they fill a niche, they are really just that, a niche item. The 2 handed striper rods that don't throw a spey cast so well are really the only exception where someone may say, "Hey, this ain't no spey rod", but if you want to press the issue and pick apart such a small sector of the "Fly Rod" famiy, well, you'll likely be very lonely out there waiving that banner.

I'm a pretty nice guy and I'm really not trying to be an ass here, but I'm sort of curious. Do you have a background in journalism? I'd be curious as to where you could sell an article after barely studying the basics about a subject, questioning the methodology and trying to change the nomenclature because it is not appealing to your novice ear. I studied the written word for a long time and have over 20 years of flyfishing under my belt and I still don't feel that I am qualified to present an authoritative piece on the subject. Maybe you do, but I don't know....
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Moose said:
I'm a pretty nice guy and I'm really not trying to be an ass here, but I'm sort of curious. Do you have a background in journalism?
Nope! In fact I don't write very well at all. (But I do enjoy it.)

Moose said:
I'd be curious as to where you could sell an article after barely studying the basics about a subject, questioning the methodology and trying to change the nomenclature because it is not appealing to your novice ear. I studied the written word for a long time and have over 20 years of fly fishing under my belt and I still don't feel that I am qualified to present an authoritative piece on the subject. Maybe you do, but I don't know....
You're right. I'm a novice. I don't have the knowledge to produce an authoritative work on Spey rods. (Yeah, I give up. I think it is a mistake, but it's not that important.) But I don't want to produce an authoritative work. I want to get some basic information on Spey rods out to a wider audience of fly fisherman. I want people to know what you can, and can't do with a Spey rod. I want to tell them how to modify their tackle to better suit their local fishing spots. I want to stem the tide of rods on eBay with the description: "Practically brand new. Only fished once."

And to be honest, I expect you guys to help. I'm giving up time that I could be tying flies or fishing or reading to write articles to help promote Spey techniques. I'm not going to talk about it and do nothing. I'm working now. Maybe nothing will come of it but I'm stepping up and trying...

I plan to point people back here to speypages.com. Once the information gets out, expect a flood of newbies looking for more information and help getting started.

Oops, one more thing. I don't know how it is in the fishing magazine industry, but at the computer magazines they were starved for articles. I managed to get some articles published even though they weren't well written and about silly topics. There is a big vaccum in the fly fishing literature on Spey rods and how to use them. I think the publishers will be interested.
 

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Hmmmmmmmmmm

So what about those of us who dont spey cast or overhead cast or fish for Salmon with Salmon rods. What about those of us who SKAGIT cast? What about the rods that CND and Meiser and Loomis and others who have rods and lines of rods specifically for Skagit casting? We could debate these things for months and never come to a consensus on a name. Skagitpages.com, skagitclave.com, skagitcasting.com? I see an opportunity here...... :hihi:
 

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a/k/a loophitech
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baldmountain said: There is a big vaccum in the fly fishing literature on Spey rods and how to use them. I think the publishers will be interested.
It has already been tapped by Gawesworth's book (other books that I am unaware of possibly) and other media sources on DVD. it hits on topics such as overhead casting, singles, doubles, single hand spey casts and the such. there is plenty of info in that book and if you have not already bought it, it will do you wise to buy it.

baldmountain said: And to be honest, I expect you guys to help. I'm giving up time that I could be tying flies or fishing or reading to write articles to help promote Spey techniques. I'm not going to talk about it and do nothing. I'm working now. Maybe nothing will come of it but I'm stepping up and trying...
you sure are and enthusiastic dude for only spey casting a few months with wanting to change things and all. if you read Gawesworth's book and practice as much you can, nomenclature of gear will mean absolutely bo diddly. well, at least in my little pea sized brain.

chromefever said: Skagitpages.com, skagitclave.com, skagitcasting.com? I see an opportunity here......
nice! :saeek:

moose said: Then my daughters Shakespeare Mickey Mouse rod can be discussed here on this forum! It's really very versatile, Worms under the Donald Duck bobber, helgrammites and splitshot, Crappies and Catfish, you name it! A fine double hander it is
double nice!! :saeek: :saeek:

vinnie
 

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Discussion Starter #18
o_clarki_clarki said:
It has already been tapped by Gawesworth's book (other books that I am unaware of possibly) and other media sources on DVD. it hits on topics such as overhead casting, singles, doubles, single hand spey casts and the such. there is plenty of info in that book and if you have not already bought it, it will do you wise to buy it.
Simon's book is between $40 and $50 depending on where you buy it. DVDs are $40-$45 with shipping. A copy of Fly Fishing or American Angler is $5 and if you get a subscription it's more like $2. These magazines reach a MUCH larger audience. Unless you go looking for it, or stumble across it by accident , you are unlikely to find Simon's book on your own. The magazines are in just about any decent bookstore.

I do have a copy of Simon's book. And you are right, well worth the money. A good chunk of what I'm writing about is based on information in that book.

o_clarki_clarki said:
you sure are and enthusiastic dude for only spey casting a few months with wanting to change things and all. if you read Gawesworth's book and practice as much you can, nomenclature of gear will mean absolutely bo diddly. well, at least in my little pea sized brain.
Yes, bad habit. Drives my wife nuts. I'm averaging about 2 years in a "hobby" before I'm burned out. :Eyecrazy:
 

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a/k/a loophitech
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this is definitely not a sport for the cheap minded individual. i grab up everything i can and exploit as much information or materials out of it that i can. for not having a job and wife that spoils me, i make out pretty good. now, when i get a job after graduation, things will be essentuated i am sure.

with all the books, gear, accoutraments (sic) for spey casting the web is host to an incredible amount of information and leads on where to buy, trade, swap, learn and much more. google spey casting and you get more than 10 pages of links to explore and learn. all the websites and books and videos will only help so much, one needs to practice, practice, practice and when one feels he/she is done, practice more. you said the same thing about archery, practice with what you have and then expand if you want to, not need to.

i sent you a website that i found very useful. gunther feurstein's website is a site i frequent regularly and find it extremely useful. i think you will be impressed with the demo videos and written word of the casts that is provided.

good luck dude

vinnie
 

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baldmountain said:
I don't know how it is in the fishing magazine industry, but at the computer magazines they were starved for articles.

To get published in print in general, you must be both a skilled writer and have the research to qualify what you are presenting or you will not be taken seriously. Unfortunately you will also likely have to be known for having been published somewhere for something. Most major mags wont touch a novice, even if he's prepared a good piece. Writing is an endeavor where one pays his dues, progresses and reaches the top if you've got the stuff, like most other occupations. Editors won't often publish even a token piece written by someone nobody's ever heard of or is likely to ever hear of again. They need to present themselves as legitimate in their field and do so by publishng pieces written by qualified writers. A couple of exception are Greys Sporting Journal if you are of a literary bent, or there are a couple mags which hold contests annually for amateur writers. One other possibillity is local outdoor rags that might print a piece, but it won't get you any accolades no matter how good and the circulation, like the internet publication, is very limited.

I wasn't trying to burst your bubble in my earlier post, but to be realistic, you should research and learn and become proficient at the very least before even mentioning such an idea in a crowd such as this that is filled with both educated and professional people. Everyone here is very friendly and helpful, and after reading up on the basics should you ask a question that is obviously sincere and well thought out, and not on the list of the 20 most asked questions of all time, you'll get a lot of answers and opinions pouring in. I do dig your enthusiasm though ;) And hey, we ain't all experts any how, not by a long shot!
 
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