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Retreive
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Discussion Starter #1
I need to identify T - type material that sinks 4-5 inches per second in 15 feet long as per Mr Ward's suggestion.
I also have to make sure the these tips will cast adequately for my Sage TCX 7 wt and Winston BiiX 14' 8-9.

So these will obviously be different grainage but will still sink the same on two different rods, or am I wrong maybe it is one sink tip that will do both rods? Help please!!
Can anybody help with this?
I looked up Rio but they have it in type 3-6 and higher but not in type 4.
You guys remember Ed's post on how to improve casting, fishing and confidence? Right?
Thanks for any input.
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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T-11 is a happy medium, in the ballpark for what you're talking about. It has a nice moderate sink rate, enough mass to turn over relatively large flies, and will cast well off of any lines compatible with the rods you mention.

As an alternative, you could get a "custom cut" T-10 tip, whack it down the middle, and you'll have two 11' sections of T-10 with nice loops. Just add tippet!

There's many ways to go for this, I'm interested to hear what others have to say about it.
 

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You can contact Steve Godshall and get the alternate "Z" material.
He can make any length you want and with welded loops on both ends.
This is all I use now days.

Here's the list of Z-material:

Z-7 : 7 grains per foot/sink 4.6ips
Z-11: 11 grains per foot/sink 5.4ips
Z-15: 15 grains per foot/sink 6.2ips
Z-20: 20 grains per foot/sink 7.0ips


Mike
 

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Look up Bob Pauli's website/research (google "flyfishinresearch") where he analyzed sinktips and current rates in a scientific manner. There's way more too it than just sink rate (IPS). Diameter of tip, current rate, fly size all play huge factors.

The difference between a Type 6 and 8 15' Rio tip (for example) is very minimal in moderate to heavy flows.

Ability to cast where you want the tip and fly to land and line manipulation also play a big role.

I need to identify T - type material that sinks 4-5 inches per second in 15 feet long as per Mr Ward's suggestion.
I also have to make sure the these tips will cast adequately for my Sage TCX 7 wt and Winston BiiX 14' 8-9.

So these will obviously be different grainage but will still sink the same on two different rods, or am I wrong maybe it is one sink tip that will do both rods? Help please!!
Can anybody help with this?
I looked up Rio but they have it in type 3-6 and higher but not in type 4.
You guys remember Ed's post on how to improve casting, fishing and confidence? Right?
Thanks for any input.
 

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just my .02 but i think 15ft of T-11 would be a b*tch to cast on a 7wt.

i'd go for 12' of T-8 with a weighted flye.

12' of T-11 or even T-14 casts just fine with my T&T 1309.
 

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Retreive
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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks guys, what a helpful stack of info.!!!

Will look into these and probably make 2 of each just to make sure. Although according to Mr Ward we should simplify the matter as much as possible.
thank you again all.
 

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retreive,

If you want to get into this a little deeper Al Buhr's booklet "How To Design Fly Lines" is the best on the subject I know of. Poppy has the booklet for around $20. Well worth the price.

Mike's suggestion of Steve Godshall's Zink tungsten is a good one, color coded and super easy to weld and if your not welding yet, Steve can build anything you want.

Enjoy The Spey Journey,
sixheads
 

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My guess is you're wanting to cast unweighted flies for winter steelhead fishing where Ed recommends a type 4 15 foot sink tip in his article Swinging for winter steel.

I don't know if scientific angler has type 4 sink tips available or not. One idea is Rio 15' type 6 density compensated sink tip in your line weight or type 3 in lesser flows. Maybe Ed will chime in or others will offer their experiences on sink tips for fishing unweighted flies for winter fish.
 

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Retreive
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Discussion Starter #11
My guess is you're wanting to cast unweighted flies for winter steelhead fishing where Ed recommends a type 4 15 foot sink tip in his article Swinging for winter steel.

I don't know if scientific angler has type 4 sink tips available or not. One idea is Rio 15' type 6 density compensated sink tip in your line weight or type 3 in lesser flows. Maybe Ed will chime in or others will offer their experiences on sink tips for fishing unweighted flies for winter fish.
I hope too, Ed would come and tell me/us, which t material will do what he suggests for 15' type 4, (or may be I should try those Airflo or Rio versi leaders???).
I have been in 3 shops quite specialized and equipped but could not find anything that would go with his suggestion. (I.E. for the unweighted fly) I can weld and have made some of my own tips but in two hip packs I have so much T material that I have lost count of what is what. I dont have time to weigh this now I am moving next week and I just want to buy material he suggested and fish it on 2 runs I know are suitable for what he suggests. I am not catching fish and want to see if what he says will make the difference
 

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JD
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I need to identify T - type material that sinks 4-5 inches per second in 15 feet long as per Mr Ward's suggestion.
I also have to make sure the these tips will cast adequately for my Sage TCX 7 wt and Winston BiiX 14' 8-9.

So these will obviously be different grainage but will still sink the same on two different rods, or am I wrong maybe it is one sink tip that will do both rods? Help please!!
Can anybody help with this?
I looked up Rio but they have it in type 3-6 and higher but not in type 4.
You guys remember Ed's post on how to improve casting, fishing and confidence? Right?
Thanks for any input.
As noted, all T material sinks faster than 4ips. If you want a 15ft sink tip that sinks @ 4ips that is going to be a type 3 sink tip.

As I recall, Ed always used T-14 in different lengths, spliced onto appropriate lengths of floating line so that all of his tips were tha same 15 ft overall length & weight. The closest you can get to these today, without making your own, would be Rio Heavy MOW's. One of Ed's famous quotes was "if 9 ft of T-14 doesn't get you deep enough, you're fishiing the wrong water"

In order to obtain suffecient energy transfer required to turn over T-14 (MOW tips) the tip of the (Skaget) head must be minimum of .080 diameter. This is equal to a Skaget Compact 540 or heavier, which etiher of the above mentioned rods are capable of casting.

The idea behind the MOW tips is that although they all have the same sink rate, they will fish at different depths, they will all cast the same. They will however, fish differently than a conventional 15ft sink tip.
 

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Retreive
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I thank you all for contributing. I consider this matter still unresolved. I have learned some more but not what I wanted. I'll wait for Mr Ward to show up and will ask him the same question again. Not that I mean to bug enibody I would just like to close this with some sense. Besides I want that type 4 tip

I'll tell you some more of why:

I follow all recommandations on weights, lines, flies etc...i dont go to great number of runs but I go the the ones that match what Me Ward explained.
Winter, cold water, visibility at 3-4 ft , sunny day. I take my Winston, line it with 550 gr Skagit line add 12 ft of T-12, tie 2-3 ft of fluoro and bright fly. It is a sunny day and clear water, right.
I stArt short, and without moving. I cast 2-3 ft longer every next cast. Once I am with the head out of the rod and another 10 -15 ft of running line I start walking down. Since half way down nothing happens I might change a fly or if I am snagging I might change the tip to save the fly or two.
Am I doing something wrong? Because behind me there is a guy who strapped Scandi !!!! Line and 10 foot of T 10 or. 11 and booom,!!!!! He has a steelhead on. I mean, Scandi had and T and he is the begginer!!!!'
I'll go back to gear and nice fresh roe.
I'll let you know.
 

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I think this is the post and thread you are referencing:
http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=45149

And I believe this is the paragraph you're getting stuck on:

#4 - Narrow the focus, part 3. One sinktip. If you prefer to fish/cast unweighted flies, make it a 15' Type 4. If you like fishing/casting weighted flies, go with ten feet of whatever T-type (T-8, T-11, T-14, etc.) material best matches up with your rod/line. These two tip systems will cover the aforementioned type of water with very good effectiveness. Using just one tip in the described water type is a focus tactic that will "force" one to become a better caster due to consistency in the equipment, force one to become very familiar with that tips fishing parameters, force one to develop "trust" in a very "tried and true" fishing system and also minimize the fiddling-faddling wasting of time changing through different tips due to inexperienced "second-guessing" of equipment. -quoting "Riveraddict" (aka Ed Ward)

The whole post has some great suggestions in it, but if I understand your query correctly I think you are kind of missing the general point behind narrowing the focus. My own take on this is simply to reduce the variables of changing equipment around constantly (perhaps Mr Ward will clarify/elaborate in his own eloquent words). Note that the "Type 4" was a suggestion/example, I don't think it was meant as an absolute in any way.
HTH,
JB
 

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I think Scientific Anglers makes shooting heads using type 4 sink material. You could chop one and loop it for the sink tip your after.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think Scientific Anglers makes shooting heads using type 4 sink material. You could chop one and loop it for the sink tip your after.
Thank you I searched and there is type 4 sinking line that SA makes. It is just a question of where to cut the line and utilize just the level portion so that tapered section does not influence the castability of the tip.
LongHammer appreciate your tip.
 

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Tips

I agree is Jason's post

You're too stuck on one aspect of the article.

Any run you're fishing, doesn't matter the depth, speed or size, you fish the tip that will cover the water, head to tailout, without snagging every cast.

Type 3,6,8
T-7,8,11,14,17,20
MOW tips in T-8,T-11,T-14,T-17, varying from 2.5',5',7.5',10',12.5' of sinking material.
Versi Leaders
Poly Leaders
Lead core
......

Dude, its enough to drive someone new to the game crazy.

Let me make this suggestion and i really hope you try it out.

Next time you have the notion, take your rods and a whack of sink tips to a piece of water, be it still or moving, doesn't matter.

Start with a floating tip, cast a while, and enjoy.
Move on to a type 3, as it is the lightest and easiest to cast of the type, or 'T' sink tips. Feel it, get in a groove. If its 15' and feels too heavy or doesn't turn over, cut it down to 13' or 12' and try again. if its still too much for your light rod, cut it down to 10'. You shouldn't have to cut it less than 10' to make it work.
At 7wt TCX is no lightweight..... i fish this rod a lot and throw 10' of T14 with ease. In fact, it really isn't far off of a Winston BiiX 8/9 in terms of power. (my opinion, ultra fast action vs moderate fast)

For scandi lines, try the poly leaders or versi tips, they all rock in 10'.

Next, whip out your type 6, and do the same. Start with 15' and throw till you understand the way it works with your line. If it doesn't turn over, cut it down to 12 or 13'.

Again with the type 8.

IF you want to fish MOW tips, the T8's are generally for lighter rods, 6 and 7wt. However a 7wt will throw T11 no problem.

T11 MOW's are amazing all-round performers, and work on everything but the heaviest of rods. And i only say that cause if you throw a 9-11wt rod you probably aren't going to worry about tip size or tip grain weights too much...

T14 MOW's are my favourite and all-round most versatile in my opinion. The 2.5' achieves what a type 3 will.
The 5/5 is very close to a type 6.
The 7.5 is close to a type 8.
And 10' of T14 is as heavy as you'll likely ever need for steelhead.

In one of your posts you mentioned a guy caught a fish behind you, and you wondered if the sink tip you were fishing was the culprit... I would guess not. Not catching steelhead is part of the game... its fishing man. Im guessing you were winter fishing at that.

Good luck with the game, its a blast.

Fish what feels right, and don't get too hung up on the details. Fish a tip that will get you down, without hanging up every cast. Winter fish tend to want a deeper fly, summer doesn't matter much. Whatever you do, don't lose flies every couple casts, thats not fishing effectively.

A Type 4 is not the answer....
 

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The previous post really nailed it, I also think a lot of us get hung up on the details w/ sink tips and assume there's only one tip to get the job done in a given situation. This past winter I used Airflo FLO tips in T-8, T-10 & replacement DC tips in Type 3 & 7 I used these tips for various flies but used them in the same runs, and guess what? I still got lots of grabs. I'd say buy a set of airflo or rio replacement tips for your smaller traditional flies & a few MOW or FLO tips for your intruders & big uglies and you'll find all ur bases are covered.

If your using scandi lines most often, stick with poly tips or versi tips, but either way buy a set with multiple sink rates and just start testing them out. This whole sink tip mess is easier then it sounds, and I was confused at first before I started trying different ones out.
 

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The previous post really nailed it, I also think a lot of us get hung up on the details w/ sink tips and assume there's only one tip to get the job done in a given situation. This past winter I used Airflo FLO tips in T-8, T-10 & replacement DC tips in Type 3 & 7 I used these tips for various flies but used them in the same runs, and guess what? I still got lots of grabs. I'd say buy a set of airflo or rio replacement tips for your smaller traditional flies & a few MOW or FLO tips for your intruders & big uglies and you'll find all ur bases are covered.

If your using scandi lines most often, stick with poly tips or versi tips, but either way buy a set with multiple sink rates and just start testing them out. This whole sink tip mess is easier then it sounds, and I was confused at first before I started trying different ones out.
The confusion continues here! You mean poly leaders and versi-leaders for scandi heads, not **'tips' ;)
 
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