[A490-F]

I am trying to outfit a couple of used spey rods that I bought. Many threads on this board recommend specific lines for a rod. It got me thinking. If there is no standard for designing a spey line, what do the manufacturer's use to design the rod?

I bought an old Sage 713-4. a Sage 815-4 and a Winston 15' 10 at an estate sale. I like the Rio muli-tip lines. I use a couple of them on my single handed rods. Here in the NW everyone is using some kind of sink-tip.

Any help?

 

[Bob Pauli]

what lines

The best source I know is www.rioproducts.com.

Also the introductory page to this site: click "spey pages" in the middle of the fish and select link to "Simon's Updated Recommendations."

 

[Bob Pauli]

what grain weights

Download Rio's catalog [its in pdf] and print it out. It contains grain weights for all lines, tips, etc. It is an extraordinary source of information.

 

[fredaevans]

Bob's nailed it with the info above.

Even better yet, RIO, and probably why I have so many of their lines and other goodies, is the only manufacture I know who will actually take the time to talk to you about YOUR specific needs.

Simon is a true gem! I've had several occations to contact him on where/what of their products to purchase (last one was for their new sinking leaders). Not only did he research with RIO's marketing dept on whose stocking them, but sent me the phone number(s).

Leaders are on their way to me now from Creekside Angler's in Salem, OR. (And yes, I did recommend they come to "our" web site with an eye to advertising.)

The point to this is: "There is customer service, and there is customer SERVICE.'' Huge bow from the waist to the folks at RIO for not only doing it right, but continuing to do it right over the years. Suspect their management has long since learned that 'new customers are silver, repeat customers are gold. There is no better advertising that a truely satisfied customer. As an example of this from about 3 years back I purchased an Alrtr. line from a Washington retailer. Specificly (sp?) told him the line was for Spey rod use; "No Problem." Like ya, when I got the line. And he wouldn't/couldn't replace the line with the correct product ......

Called RIO to see if they could help on a 'swap.' New/correct line was in the mail to me and on my desk about 4 business days later.
fae

 

[beau purvis]

lines

i have the winston 15ft 10wght. i used it a lot and used rios wc multi tip in a 10-11-12. if the sage 815 is actualy a 8150-4 peice i used a wc 8-9-10 on that one. beau

 

[A490-F]

What I meant was............

When the rod designer is crafting a spey rod, what is he using as a model spey line to design the rod around?

I assume that single handed rods are started using standard AFTMA charts with minor modifications. Most rod manufacturers follow the charts most of the time. There are exceptions.

Where does say Sage start if they want to design a 15' spey rods
that casts heavily weighted flies or sink-tips?

If we knew, couldn't we make some more subjective judgements on spey lines. The comparison would be apples to apples rather than trial and error. One manufacturer's design 9 weight line is another's design 10 wt line.

 

[flytyer]

Fred,

The customer service you describe from RIO is one of the reasons they are the only line I use anymore. Also, I have found both Simon and JIm to be rresponsive to ideas a person may have about a line or to ading a new line weight to an esisting line series. Additionally, Jim was a fishing bum/steelhead bum and he sti9ll fishes as much as possible I'm sure. Thus, he is close to the needs of fishermen and tries his best to meet them. Can't say the same for the other line manufacturers out there.

A490-F,

The same thing is present with single hand rods as well. I have several single hand rods that I like with the line the manufacturer said it is ballanced with wile some friends like them better with a heavier line. A lot of this comes down to the type of action you prefer and whether you want to feel the rod loading down into the butt for most cast or if you like a faster more lively feel.

I agree with others herein, that the recommendations that RIO makes are spot on.

 

[NrthFrk16]

DITTO!!

I can, coming from someone within the idustry, that Rio's customer service is second to none.

One example stands out...Rio seems to occasionaly have problems with their Aqualux lines as sometime if can be very difficult to get a nail knot to hold properly (I have resorted to a an Albright on the end...its gawdy with mono but it holds!).

Anyways, I sent back both a #7 and a #9 30' Aqualux shooting head for a customer as these two heads the problem was very noticeable...a week later, 250 and 350 grain Aqualux heads arrive with a note attached:

"We are currently backordered on the defective lines. These heads are for you to keep...as soon as the proper heads are back in stock, we will ship them!"

Now that is great customer service!!

 

[silverdoc]

If I understand your question, you're asking "What line weight loads this rod for an average cast?
Single hand rods are rated for 30' of belly,(at least older singlehand rods; some of the new ones are designed for 40'-50'). There doesn't seem to be any standard for the 2 handers, but Dec Hogan published a chart of DT line weights based on 70' of belly:
DT8=570 grains
DT9=652 gr.
DT10=722 gr.
DT11=875 gr.
DT12=999 gr.
Checking the PRODUCT INFORMATION SHEET for Windcutter Spey (Rio website) gives head weights that can be correlated with DT lines & help you "translate" the ratings.
Just as an example, the WC 8/9/10 weighs 585 gr., which roughly equals the 570 gr. of a DT8.
If you normally throw LOOOOONG lengths of DT line, you can figure grains per foot, multiply by casting distance & come up with an equivilant line in a shooting head.
Airflo,SA, & Cortland should have the same info available.
Hope this helps...
Best fishes,

 

[A490-F]

Ahhh, There it is!

Thanks for that input to my poorly phased question. Someone could use this information to rough up some shooting heads or other custom line for their casting distance.

For instance I noted that Rio recommends a Mid-Spey 9/10 for the Winston LT 15'-10. Others have recommended a WC 10/11/12 on this board. I might have guessed a Mid-Spey 10/11.

Knowing the design grain weight, a caster can narrow down possible line choices more quickly. I am trying to avoid buying several lines to try them out. And without standardization in the industry, it is more difficult.

 

[flytyer]

A490-F,

Keep in mind that those who recommend the heavier line for the Winston LT 15' 10wgt, like a slow rod and like to feel the rod bend into the butt on most casts. Those who do not like a slow rod or who don't like feeling the rod bend into the butt on each cast use the lighter 9/10 line. Simon's recommendations on the RIO web site provide for both the folks who like a faster action and those who want to slow down the rod and feel in bend into the butt. That is why he provides both an "A" and a "B" line recommendation.

 

[A490-F]

Another member emailed me offline with a useful link.

Someone at this fly shop put together a comparison chart of various line manufacturer's lines, lengths and weights. You can compare lines to get an idea of what 2 lines might be similar.

And as you said, you can then decide whether you like to have the rod flex alot during casting or just a little.

http://www.speyshop.com/spey_line_weights__and_head_leng.htm

 

[JasonC]

Another reference link from Spey pages-

http://speypages.com/JDSpeyLines1.pdf

 

[Bob Pauli]

A490-F re: line weights

Your comment:
"For instance I noted that Rio recommends a Mid-Spey 9/10 for the Winston LT 15'-10. Others have recommended a WC 10/11/12 on this board. I might have guessed a Mid-Spey 10/11."

The Rio recommendation you quoted and that made by others is the same advice, as far as the weight your rod will see.

From page 21 of the Rio 2003 catalong the 66 foot head weight for a Mid-Spey 10/11 is 725 grains, and the weight of the 54 foot head of a WindCutter 10/11/12 is 740 grains. These weights are near identical and so both your sources agree on the number of grains that will load your rod.

You can now confidently look at various lines for your rod, with the knowledge that 725 grains will load your rod. If you are looking for a place to start, choose the Rio recommendation.

As far as standards go, it is a work in process in the spey casting industry. See previous threads discussing this issue. Suffice it so say that Rio Products holds the leadership at this point to make some sense of spey casting line numbering. The rod companies' numbering systems are different from each other and your "home base" in my opinion should be Rio's recommendations.

 

[beau purvis]

line recos

hi Bob,
as you and i have talked before, my best casting buddies and i think rio recos are one size light. all a matter of personal taste i guess. when i have cast my rod with their rec i just dont get that dynamic jump forward when you jack your underhand and stop your forward movement with your upper.i think it is easier to get a tight loop that looks good with there rec.i certainly think it is personal choice because i notice from comments on the board that a lot of folks tend to like their rods strong that way. however i also notice when i am on the rivers that a lot of people arent loading as they shld. part of that is definitely technique also.
beau

 

[beau purvis]

lines

P.S.,
the way i look at it is with there recos you know you shld try a rod with there rec and then try it one heavier. you probably dont need to try anthing else in terms of weights. so it certainly shortens the process and reduces the uncertainty. beau

 

[Bob Pauli]

Rio Line Recommendations

Beau-
Don't the A [fast action] and B [slower action] recommendations by Rio cover the one line heavier you prefer ?

The man in this thread who is making line choices picked the B recommendation for his rod, which I think puts him in your camp.

Bob

 

[beau purvis]

lines

hi Bob,
actualy i shd have looked at that more closely.his B recommends are one size too light for me on the winston in question and on the fly logic that we use [1308].
Beau