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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all from the geographical center of Canada:)

Having spent many years chasing creek trout with my bamboo rods- I succumbed this season to the lure of the local native species of channel catfish and carp:)- I told you it was sacrilege- read on it gets worst:). My local water- the Red River is big as are the fish.

a 37 " cat on the spey rod

and a fair size carp

these fish are incredibly hard fighting in the heavy current on the Red, routinely taking 50-75 yards of backing repeatedly, and having lost/ been out gunned by , a number of larger fish on my 10 ft 9 wt setup ,I acquired an old Farlow Farlight 14 ft 10 wt glass spey rod(budget,opportunity etc)- looking for more leverage/backbone and the capability of casting from cramped backcast situations- when the water levels get high- we are literally wading in front of the willows:)). While a mite tiring after several fish and several hours of fishing, i,m in love with this approach:))
Wheres he going with all this? hey i,m getting there:) My current lines are basic WF in intermediate and V sink rates- i told you the current gets heavy at times:)
hence the V sink line- patterns are deep clousers and crayfish patterns- and when the flows are lighter- here comes more sacrilege:)- hairwing munro killer/yellow ally,s shrimp/orange general practitioner/ purple mcbain- all reasonable and fun to tie imitations of local baitfish and food sources of the cats.
the hairwing and salmon patterns are easy enough to cast- from the superb vids on Dana,s site i have em mangled the single spey out to 60-70 ft- but with the heavily weighted patterns- i simply cant turn over the line/pattern - so i,m using what feels comfortable- perhaps its a Belgian style cast- pulling the line under the rod tip on the backcast to get the line kicking high as it straightens out behind me over the bushes and an over the tip follow through- getting comfortable 70-80 ft casts all day. So yep!- here it is the question:)- given the circumstances what line type setup would you suggest for approaching spey casting / turning over the heavily weighted patterns that would offer a IV/V sink rate?
please dont tell me to find another forum- i really like this one:)))
 

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a/k/a loophitech
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Man a channel cat on a spey rod, you ROCK!! That is way cool. As for lines, in the salt I use the Loop adapted lines and some tips up to 7.5 ips with short 5-7 foot straight mono (a technique learned here on this site.) This setup is a relatively short head at 33 or so feet plus the 9-15' tips I use and the leader. For a running line I use the Polyshoot XT by Airflo and it rocks. The rod is a Meiser 1356 (aptly named Mr. Joshua after my son) and a Loop reel. A really nice setup to throw small intruders and GP's. The only thing I lose in this setup is line control and mending. It might just be me, but this is what I experience. It does not, however, interfere with catching fishies.

I used the same setup (different weight line, an adapted line at 570 something grain head) a 7.5 ips poly leader and a standard intruder casting a Loop Grey line 14 9/10 and it cast out to 80 feet no problem, that is after I got the timing down. Good luck and let us know how you fair. Jeez, a cat on spey rod, how cool is that??? :D

Vinnie
 

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JD
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What you need

is a Skagit line/system. This is similar to what loophitech described. Only he was using the Loop adaped heads. Basically, very short, very heavy (grain weight) heads. The head, including the sink tip, are three to three and a half times the rod length. But because the head is so short, it needs to be one or two sizes (again grain weight) heavier than what your rod is rated. The (Spey) casting technique relies on line stick to help make up for the extreme shortness of the head.
Do a search on Skagit casting and you should be able to find more info on the subject.
 

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Don't give up on the Spey cast--you're half way there!

To quote: " perhaps its a Belgian style cast- pulling the line under the rod tip on the backcast to get the line kicking high as it straightens out behind me .."

A characteristic of all Spey casts is tossing the line under the rod tip during the back cast. So take a bit of power off your back cast, let the fly line/leader joint kiss the water[anchor] and deliver your forward cast.

Adjust the touchdown/anchor point of the fly line to accommodate the space available behind. Little space, anchor forward of your position, adequate space, bring the anchor back within a rod length of your position.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thank you for the responses- most helpfull- looks like I have some reading and experimenting/playing ahead of me:)

cheers
 

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Damn fish ladder
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You are in a special club now

Prairie---

I often fish for carp and channel cats with a beat to heck old English spey rod, too. I think we could be on to something. I, however, do not catch many of these fish if I am not sight casting to them.

My question---

How do you present the fly to the fish??? Can you see them??? Are you swinging the fly or doing a retrieve?

I sometimes jig and strip.

Look forward to your ideas
 

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Now You've Done It

What is up with this. You have let the cat out of the bag. Now everyone is going to want to chase fresh water bonefish and catfish with a two hander! (JK) I have never tried the catfish route but carp are awesome on a one hander or a two hander. It takes a pretty stout rod though for most of these fish. Here in the Great Lakes region carp over 30lbs are pretty common. I use both a 9wt one hander and two hander to chase them around here. I have not tried to catch them in the rivers and I have not tried fishing for cats yet! I would look at a shorter 8 or 9wt two hander and a skagit style line to do the type of fishing you are after. Something similar to what the salmon guys use to chase kings on the West coast. Anything longer than a 12 or 13' rod and the fish is going to use it to his advantage to work you over. The longer the rod the more leverage a fish has on you. The shorter the rod the better when it comes to hard fighting fish like carp. Good Luck and let us know how it turns out for you!
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Hi Brooklyn-:)

Cats- presentations and patterns depend on the water conditions, cats have an extraordinary set of senses -i love the big tongue concept- lol - so they are very capable of hunting out prey in a number of wayshttp://www.thecontentwell.com/Fish_Game/Catfish/Catfish_Senses.html
Here the main food sources are goldeye and large shiners and at this time of year frogs,so patterns reflect that They prey on the goldeye and shiners actively-(they are not just the simple scavangers they seem to have a rep for) sitting in holes/depressions in the heaviest current .I'll often look for the goldeye activity and fish under the schools looking for hunting cats.What seems to happen , is that the baitfish schools will move into an area feeding and the cats will follow, so a set of current seams/holes will be active for a few hours and die off as the schools move on.The basic approach has been swinging with a downstream mend to induce a little drag and then a lift/twitch and fast drop as the pattern crosses over a hole, slowing and dropping the pattern in. When the water gets very turbid, I suspect they utilize their electroreception/lateral line/hearing senses more and patterns that "move" water definately work better. For clear( here that means not silt laden dark brown) low water conditions ,vision may be the primary sense , the hairwing patterns on a clear intermediate line , with the same swing/lift/drop approach,have been successfull. As I said i,m very new to this , so i,m still in learning and experimenting mode, but, I hope that helps.

Carp< such an easy word to misspell:) - a good friend is forever telling me he has a new Carp pattern( cept with the"ar" rurned around- what am I supposed to say?:)

They have been harder to sort out- but mainly I,m fishing them blind, in slack water or backflows , using nymphs( we have huge Hex hatches here) , leech and crawdad patterns, my best success has been slowing the presentation down and then slowing it down some more and more again, but it has been hit and miss. You rarely see the tailing feeding activity that the lake folks mention, so visual stalking is not really on. However, I have had some success stalking bubbles:). I look for bubble trails hitting the surface , a sign of grubbing carp, dislodging trapped gases and watch the direction the trails are moving, then cast ahead and simply lift and twitch the pattern.

ps- we have sturgeon to 5-6 FT here as well - now those on the fly intrigue me:)))))

Chrome- i,d love to hear how your approaching the lake carp- i have some fisheries nearby I hav,nt yet tried.
 

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a hog is a hog is ahogis

ever try a fat DT line with tips,i've used a DT with a wetcell single handed line cut up into tips/looped to great effectiveness,casts like a rocket with hardly any backast room,but you must only allow the leader and `possibly'a small amount of line to act as the anchor,start the forward drive early,,,a hog is a smile is a smile is asmile! :biggrin:
 

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Carp

Carp here on the GL are easy targets in the summer. You can sight fish for them on the flats and watch for them tailing in the mud. Hence the fresh water bonefish nick name. They are easy to find and target but hard to entice into biting. The best targets are the ones tailing and feeding, as opposed to the schools just moving through an area. Presentation is done with floating lines and weighted flies as they are usually not very deep. Nymphs, leech patterns and buggers like the BC work best. Have not tried cray fish patterns other than a muppet which does work well. Clousers and other weighted streamer patterns can work well at times. I have even had a couple friends catch them on dries believe it or not. I have not accomplished this yet but I have seen schools of fish working the lake fly/may fly hatches and taking flies off the surface. There is no mistaking that big pair of lips trying to snatch a meal off the surface. So much fun so little time? :eek:
 
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