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Large Salmon are ALLOWED to be kept on the following rivers . Because they\ve met their level on "conservation" The FQSA and the ASF hypocritically continue to be blind to this absolute stupidity . THERE IS NO WAY THAT 5 OF THESE RIVERS HAVE REACHED ANY KIND OF #'S TO SUPPORT THIS !!
The IDIOTS continue to be in charge FFS
Gaspésie (5 rivières) :
  • Rivière Dartmouth .No way !!
  • Rivière Madeleine - Another river with an insecure # of fish The fish count on this river has always been corrupt .
  • Rivière Sainte-Anne - There is NO way this river has a good # of fish in the river .Hardly ANY fingerlings evident and Wilson should have had 10 to 20 Salmon in it . I saw 3 Salmon and 2 Grilse . Steeve W######g counted 5 Salmon . Rets was unusually barren ! Saw a good # of Parr but NO fingerlings !

  • Rivière Saint-Jean
  • Rivière York -
Bas-Saint-Laurent (4 rivières) :
  • Rivière Matane
  • Rivière Matapédia
  • Rivière Mistigougèche
  • Rivière Mitis
Côte-Nord (4 rivières) :
  • Rivière du Gros Mécatina
  • Rivière Napetipi
  • Rivière Saint-Paul
  • Rivière du Vieux Fort
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The folks that work in cubicles and get out into the field every ninety days know best. Ive spoken to fisheries scientists who are good friends and when I tell them where and when we are seeing fish they would say "that is technically impossible for fish to be there". The converse is your argument. It blows your mind.
 

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C&K brings in the dough.
 

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C&K brings in the dough.
Actually, so far this year the Quebec salmon ZECs have been swimming in money since with so many anglers out of work, the rivers have been heavily pounded all during C&R season. The C&K crowd is mostly old-guard Quebecers who refuse to get with the times and see it as their "right" to harvest salmon. These people are often the ones in control of the regs too. The younger anglers get it for the most part, but there is much resistance to change.
 

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Unfortunately I don't think its ignorant public servants who are the cause, but rather managers who have a vested interest in optimizing revenue, even at the cost of the species (which is at the source of the revenue). Or worst, managers who want their BBQ'd Salmon...The message they put forth is that Quebec salmon populations are some of the healthiest around (which is BS). Keep harvesting as long as that keeps the $$$ coming in... It's a highway towards disaster for the fish we all love. The numbers of returns on those rivers, often do not support the concept of an abundant resource that can be harvested... But the ''model'' the Qc government swears by skews the results...

Thanks Brian for posting!
 

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Is anyone aware of exactly how they come up with the specific numbers that they do? if it is based on a model I would be interested in specifics ie when was this developed, by who etc.
 

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Which numbers are you referring to? The number of salmon in the rivers? That's counted by either fish ladder counts or snorkelers sweeping the river. The capacity each river can support (how many parr it can support) and egg deposition is by model. And to the best of my knowledge was not developed here (Europe) or during recent times. But it's applied here and now with religious fervor... :rolleyes:

Alt least that is what I understand of it from what I have read...


Is anyone aware of exactly how they come up with the specific numbers that they do? if it is based on a model I would be interested in specifics ie when was this developed, by who etc.
 

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There are two reasons to mandate full catch and release for large Atlantic salmon. One is so that the same fish can be caught and released multiple times.

The other is that this type of mandatory release contributes to increased abundance.

For the first reason, we have all kinds of evidence that a fraction of released fish are re-captured once or several times.

For the second reasons, where is the scientific evidence? As far as I know there is none. Please cite specific papers, peer review published, technical or working papers, whatever is available.

Thank you.
 

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The folks that work in cubicles and get out into the field every ninety days know best. Ive spoken to fisheries scientists who are good friends and when I tell them where and when we are seeing fish they would say "that is technically impossible for fish to be there". The converse is your argument. It blows your mind.
I can't say enough how identical my experiences have been to yours,,,,Yeah it does blow my mind to the point where im almost relieved to see another like myself in the asylum
 

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No I am aware of the counting methods,
I was referring to the harvest quota numbers. This yearr the harvest quota is 50 for St. Jean, 35 Dartmouth, 70 York.
 

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There are two reasons to mandate full catch and release for large Atlantic salmon. One is so that the same fish can be caught and released multiple times.

The other is that this type of mandatory release contributes to increased abundance.

For the first reason, we have all kinds of evidence that a fraction of released fish are re-captured once or several times.

For the second reasons, where is the scientific evidence? As far as I know there is none. Please cite specific papers, peer review published, technical or working papers, whatever is available.

Thank you.

Dead fish don't spawn. Can't cite the study but I'm confident it's true.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
"This year the harvest quota is 50 for St. Jean, 35 Dartmouth, 70 York. "
At 155 Salmon THAT # equals 2 % of the annual North American catch as it was recorded in 2018
The only good points are that the meat hunters have only one tag to fill and most of them will be over on the Matane where fish are really rolling in as we speak !
Back in the day of 7 tags, 5 dedicated C&R folk ( Not that there ever was that #) would buy catch and kill licences and with the cooperation of a ZEC employee (NOT that there ever was one ) . They would then buy daily passes and report a " killed" fish on each day "fished " 5 fishermen could 've then saved up to 35 fish !!!!
Sure, the catch stats were skewed (IF it ever happened),but the whole numbering thing was skewed in the first place
 

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There was a DNA study done on the Skagit River steelhead. They collected DNA recorded measurements and on some fish inserted transmitters. The fish where caught by rod and reel, the fish passed several transponders and quite a few where caught multiple times. Released fish will and can be caught again and again, and if we take care of them will spawn.
 
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Indeed, tagging studies on C&R indicate the fish can and will be caught multiple times in the same season. Obviously each capture is a stress and does have impacts, but it's clearly not ''automatic death''. Especially if care is taken with the fight and the release. As well, a recent study indicated that up to 9% of grilse can return to sea to come back as MSW fish. That's not big numbers, but every little bit helps.

Despite this, they still kill lots of grilse. And I was surprised this year that it was not just the old C&K (no not Calvin Klein :p ) but many youger new to the game fishemen and fisherwomen.



There was a DNA study done on the Skagit River steelhead. They collected DNA recorded measurements and on some fish inserted transmitters. The fish where caught by rod and reel, the fish passed several transponders and quite a few where caught multiple times. Released fish will and can be caught again and again, and if we take care of them will spawn.
 

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@SimonD: None of those studies demonstrate any kind of significant impact on abundance.

For those familiar with the ecology of Pacific salmon, this is not a surprise. Angling harvest or catch and release have no measurable impact on abundance.
 

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I would agree that studies have not shown ((YET) any significant impacts on population abundance. We have to remember though that as in all things Science, it's not because a study didn't demonstrate something, that it isn't the way it is (and yes I acknowledge that this can go both ways). This said, as for the grilse comment above, a fish released is a fish in the river, which does increase (slightly) the abundance of fish to potentially be caught again, and/ or spawn. I personally prefer the precautionary approach as in 'Leave as many fish in the river as possible', then if the ecosystem/ population dynamics don't equate into an increase in salmon, then so be it. But at least we didn't hinder it by harvesting a potentially significant amount of the breeding stock. It's the only variable in the Mortality component of Salmon populations (Harvest) we have control over; I think we need to reduce that variable as much as possible, since the rest is out of our control.

But this is just my 0.02$ and is by no way absolute. It's just that the management decisions are quite questionalble, especially on some of the smaller Quebec rivers with smaller runs (like the Petite Cascapedia). As it has been for a very long time in Quebec, the financial aspect of salmon fishing is considerably running the show. It'S most probably the same elsewhere.

Cheers!

@SimonD: None of those studies demonstrate any kind of significant impact on abundance.

For those familiar with the ecology of Pacific salmon, this is not a surprise. Angling harvest or catch and release have no measurable impact on abundance.
 

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There are obviously a multitude of variables related to sea survival. However , bringing it back to rivers and c and r, the number of smolt going out to sea is dependent on a healthy spawning population. Surely if suitable habitat is available and is not restricted, more salmon would result in more spawning pairs ; the greater the number of redds ( habitat dependent) = greater number of eggs, and more parr that survive and ultimately more smolt going to sea.
 
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