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Discussion Starter #1
Out in the park, I'm having challenges making overhead casts with my new Echo 8 wt. 10'10" switch rod, set up for beach salmon fishing. I'm using a new Snowbee 450 grain Switch Line (which has a 31' head and integrated running line), with a 10' Airflo clear intermediate polyleader, and a 3' tippet of 10 lb. Maxima, and a tuft of wool. (In actual fishing, I use fairly sparse streamers, generally about size 6, mostly unweighted, but some with bead heads, and a few with small barbell eyes.)

I've found the forward cast works best with about 3' of running line outside the rod's tip, and I'm shooting about 40-45', for a total distance of 85-90'.

I'm having two problems: the line tip and polyleader tend to dump in a heap, and I'm not getting as much distance as I need for this fishery.

I occasionally make some casts single handed, with double hauls, to figure out what's going on when two-handing. These casts turn over much better, and more easily attain the same distance. But I definitely won't be doing this more than very, very occasionally, due to the strain on my joints. I have to cast this stick with two hands.

I think my single hand casting stroke was slower than my double handed, so going back to two hands, I tried slowing things down. That helped a bit, but it just didn't feel right. One thing that helped was stopping the rod lower down on the forward delivery. That got the line tip and leader to turn over better.

Thanks for reading. Any suggestions are more than welcome. I want that fly to land straight out, ready for an instant grab! And I want to reach those fish!
 

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I have the same line with an 8wt snowbee switch and have no troubles but I dont use poly tips. You shouldnt need poly tips on the beach. Use a bead head fly and a 10-14' mono leader. Use as much underhand as you can and forget the field, hit the beach and practice. I just practice where theres no fish to bug me

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For some overhead-specific tutorials

Poke around on youtube for Andrew Moy tutorials, specifically those related to two handed overhead delivery. They are quite thorough and highlight the several important differences in stroke, timing, loop shape, power application, delivery angles, stopping points, etc.

The fact that you are having better luck with single hand efforts is a good indicator that it isn't your equipment causing problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yoda, thanks very much for reminding me about Andrew Moy's excellent videos. I had forgotten about them.

Yeah, I cast okay with my 9' singles, and not too bad with the longer double I have (13'). It's this in between stick that is taking some getting used to.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
forget the field, hit the beach and practice. I just practice where theres no fish to bug me

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EXACTLY why I'm practising in the park! Way less gas money to the park, than to the barren beaches. We're having another "hope they're just late, or is it one of those lousy years", Fall.
 

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Casting I find is a totally different beast while on the beach so best to practice on the battlefield. It sounds to me that its just timing, switch rods are quite tricky to get down to a tee. I was bombing line out on my 12' 6/7 but took a bit with the short switch rod. Think its gonna be a couple weeks still before we see the silvers in decent numbers

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Discussion Starter #7
Timing does seem more critical with this switch rod. Practise, practise, practise! And you're right; tossing over water is the ideal. Plus there's no dog poop!
 
J

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bottom hand

I find that most people new to two-hand overhead casting don't use anywhere near enough bottom hand in the cast. Most of us had the same problem when we started speycasting in that the bottom hand just kind of goes along for the ride. When I end up not liking my overhead cast I immediately remind myself to really tug with the bottom hand. It should be something like a 30/70 split with the bottom hand contributing 70% of power in the cast.
 

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I have the same line with an 8wt snowbee switch and have no troubles but I dont use poly tips. You shouldnt need poly tips on the beach. Use a bead head fly and a 10-14' mono leader. Use as much underhand as you can and forget the field, hit the beach and practice. I just practice where theres no fish to bug me

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Tapatalk
Your rod will probably be overloaded with a polyleader for OH casting. Add the weight of a poly @ ~ 75 gr plus your 450 gr head and you have 525grains. For OH you should be on the lower end of the rods grain rating. As mentioned your 450gr line with a mono leader would be much better. It's what I use for my 8wt TCX and it works well. If you want to use a poly, I would go with a corresponding lighter line so your total grains are around 450. Just my thoughts.
 

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Why would you do doublehand overhead cast on the beach. Why not spey cast. Don't need practice on it? I do snake rolls mostly...and what ever I feel like at the moment...snap T...etc!! Never catch drift wood behind me. Would not think of using a double hand overhead!!
BTW, I don't use any top hand except to steer. Everything is bottom hand. Don't pull it into my body ...pull it up to my right elbow. One person mentioned he did better when he pointed the rod down lower on delivery....BING GO!!~ And,don't believe in Stoping Points!
 

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you really need a very short stroke when overhead casting - stop on the back cast with the top hand at shoulder level and on the forward stroke just pull down with the bottom hand right to your belt and just guide with the top hand - so still fulcrum effect - really more an up and down stroke as opposed to back and forth - let the rod do the work!!!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Awesome help, guys! I took note of everyone's suggestions before today's lawn practise, and things went MUCH better! Each of you contributed something to my improvement, so I thank you all very much.

Specifically, these are the things that helped:

1. Let the rod do the work. (Thanks, Rick J.) I did this by holding the rod lighter in both hands. Only 2 fingers and thumb held the lower grip.

2. Made the stroke shorter, more up and down, and pulled the butt into me. (Thanks, Rick J.) I found pulling the butt into my solar plexus (center of lower chest) to be the best stopping point.

3. Used the bottom hand for all the power. (Thanks, Beau and JR SPEY.)

4. Forgot about any hard stopping point. (Thanks, Beau.) I just continued my forward delivery downward, with a final aim much lower than before.

5. Raised the rod with both hands slightly, just before the forward delivery, as Andrew Moy demonstrated in his video; his "firing position". (Thanks, Yoda 1).

A few other things came to me, as I practised today:

1. I forgot about casting for max distance, and instead, focused on technique. Instead of shooting 40-45' for 85-90' casts that didn't turn over well, I only shot 30' for 75' casts that turned over well.

2. It helped turnover by maintaining contact with the running line, and slowing it down if necessary at the end of the shoot. Having a target also helped a lot. (I just used my neoprene reel pouch.)

3. I used my whole body, rocking back and forth along with the back and forward cast. This was a HUGE help. I think the rhythm helped make the cast smooth, and also helped to shut down the mental instructions in my head to "do this, do that". Less thinking, more paying attention to what my body felt.

Coastrider, I found out that these Snowbee lines were designed for polyleaders. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Read about this here: http://www.snowbee.co.uk/fly-fishing/fly-lines/

Gregor, thanks for making me check my total system weight. My 10' polyleader is only 30 grains, making the total load 480 g. It does feel a tad heavy, but 3 experienced casters I know have cast my setup, and say it's fine. Also, I think a slightly heavy line will come in handy for the frequent winds we get on the beach.

Beau, the reason I overhead cast, not Spey cast, on the beach, is because the fish are sometimes close. I've seen the disturbance of water-loading casts clear an area of fish.

Thanks again, everyone. This forum is the best!
 

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And it being Sunday evening...

this gets my vote for post of the week. Nicely done.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks very much, Yoda. Putting my experiences down in words helps me. I also hope it may help other folks who are at the beginning stages of the double hand journey.
 

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Seabird,

Are you using grass line? If not I would. Better yet, I would find some water. I never found grass to be all that helpfull. I started to spey in Dallas on grass with grass line with Ed's spec's! For me ..it messed me up a bit...briefly...when I was on the water with him and with Dec.
Now, I know I was doing spey casts and you overhead...but still may give you better feel picking up the line with some 'stick'.
 
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