Have you ever broken a Speyrod during casting?
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Speybum, it takes a heck of a lot of line to
over load a spey rod ... but you can do it if you put your heart into it. I've 'blown' the but section ferrel on a sage 7136 but stongly suspect the two sections had loosened up and that will do you in!
Yuck, the most expensive section of the whole darn rod to replace to boot.
fae
over load a spey rod ... but you can do it if you put your heart into it. I've 'blown' the but section ferrel on a sage 7136 but stongly suspect the two sections had loosened up and that will do you in!
Yuck, the most expensive section of the whole darn rod to replace to boot.
fae
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141 Posts
I've broken three rods while casting and none was overloaded. The Sage 7136 broke because I did not have the ferules taped. My Sage 8150 and T&T 15' 9 wt. 3 piece broke soon after coming out of the box. They had WC's of the recommended size when they broke. I believe that they were manufacturing defects
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NC, you mentioned the 7136 blowing up on you.
Where did the rod go south on you?
fae
Where did the rod go south on you?
fae
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3,042 Posts
I have broken 5 speyrods while casting. 4 were the original brown 10151's, the first time was in the 3rd section up and the other 3 were in the butt. This was a design flaw, I think it had to do with the blank and material being intended for casting with shooting head type lines, not long belly lines. Therefore, even though I was using lines well within the designated weight parameters it was in fact overloading the design of the rod. Sage has redesigned the blank and since they sent me the green version it has managed to maintain its regulation 4 pieces.
The 5th rod I blew up was my beloved 18' Bruce and Walker, it too broke in the bottom ferrule. Why I'm not sure, I just know it was a very old blank, probably Graphite I and very thin walled. I can't say I was suprised that it finally broke as the incredible torque of moving that beast about made it difficult to keep the ferrule fom twisting - even with copious amounts of tape. Interestingly, all of the rods with exception on the upper section break ot the 10151 occurred on the spiral roll cast. I guess this makes sense for a couple of reasons, first it is a powerful movement and secondly it involves a fair bit of twisting which I think severely stresses the blank. If there are any flaws or weaknesses in the blank or blank design - the spiral roll will find them!
The 5th rod I blew up was my beloved 18' Bruce and Walker, it too broke in the bottom ferrule. Why I'm not sure, I just know it was a very old blank, probably Graphite I and very thin walled. I can't say I was suprised that it finally broke as the incredible torque of moving that beast about made it difficult to keep the ferrule fom twisting - even with copious amounts of tape. Interestingly, all of the rods with exception on the upper section break ot the 10151 occurred on the spiral roll cast. I guess this makes sense for a couple of reasons, first it is a powerful movement and secondly it involves a fair bit of twisting which I think severely stresses the blank. If there are any flaws or weaknesses in the blank or blank design - the spiral roll will find them!
Well manufacturer defects are extremely rare but if they were just out of the tube and did not break near the ferrule then they are certainly suspect. You might have just gotten unlucky.
I broke one spey rod during casting and after inspecting the rod i saw that there was a tiny nick in the graphite right where the break occurred. This was a loomis GL3 which are very thin walled so such a nick might have more implications than on other rods.
I know that on the repairs that come back to us the vast majority are breaks just around the ferrules indicating that the rod was loose when it broke. Often the customer claims the rod was taped. That is why I do not tape! I believe that it lures people into a false sence of security.
Rod sections should be pushed together almost as hard as you can and they should be checked often. Taping and waxing is great but still make sure you properly seat the sections and check them often!!!!
I have only seen one rod break as the result for overloading, that was Master Choate on the Clackamas with a Scott 1509 with a prototype XLT just after the first spey clave.
next to loose ferrules vehicles and crafts are the leading cause of broken rods.
I broke one spey rod during casting and after inspecting the rod i saw that there was a tiny nick in the graphite right where the break occurred. This was a loomis GL3 which are very thin walled so such a nick might have more implications than on other rods.
I know that on the repairs that come back to us the vast majority are breaks just around the ferrules indicating that the rod was loose when it broke. Often the customer claims the rod was taped. That is why I do not tape! I believe that it lures people into a false sence of security.
Rod sections should be pushed together almost as hard as you can and they should be checked often. Taping and waxing is great but still make sure you properly seat the sections and check them often!!!!
I have only seen one rod break as the result for overloading, that was Master Choate on the Clackamas with a Scott 1509 with a prototype XLT just after the first spey clave.
next to loose ferrules vehicles and crafts are the leading cause of broken rods.
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2,095 Posts
Question re taping the sections together
This is an appropriate subject for this question.
How many of you tape your Spey rod sections together?
I have heard mixed messages on the newer Sage Rods re taping and not taping from the people who should know.
I tape my 7136 and seldom tape my 7141 or 10151 (both are Graphite 4's). I do check the ferrule fits on a regular basis. It seems after the first couple of adjustments, the fit is tight and good.
This is an appropriate subject for this question.
How many of you tape your Spey rod sections together?
I have heard mixed messages on the newer Sage Rods re taping and not taping from the people who should know.
I tape my 7136 and seldom tape my 7141 or 10151 (both are Graphite 4's). I do check the ferrule fits on a regular basis. It seems after the first couple of adjustments, the fit is tight and good.
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1,771 Posts
During my euro-style head days I just waxed the ferrules and never had a problem. When casting longer lines and using the snake roll a lot, I now have to tape the ferrules since I find them to come loose a lot more with the torsion of the snake roll - as Tyler (aka. monster snake roll machine) told me I would have to do a while back, he was right. A high quality electrical tape seems to work best. I wish they made it in clear for aesthetics, but since the market is driven by electricians we probably won't see that anytime soon!
.02
.02
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Juro, MJYP re taping Spey Rods
Thanks, I will be taping and waxing my ferrules on my Spey Rods, from now on.
I'm in the process of trying to learn how to do the Snake Roll, and the physics involved in my abortive attempts probably need a lot of tape.
Re the colored tapes, some of the Ace Hardware stores used to carry a brown and green plastic tape. I will check them and Home Depot out.
We high style Speyers don't want that ugly black electrical tape on our brown and green Spey Rods.
Last week my wife asked why I didn't use the silver duct tape which rides along all the time in the back of my SUV for various emergencies and preventive measures. I just glared at her.
Thanks, I will be taping and waxing my ferrules on my Spey Rods, from now on.
I'm in the process of trying to learn how to do the Snake Roll, and the physics involved in my abortive attempts probably need a lot of tape.
Re the colored tapes, some of the Ace Hardware stores used to carry a brown and green plastic tape. I will check them and Home Depot out.
We high style Speyers don't want that ugly black electrical tape on our brown and green Spey Rods.
Last week my wife asked why I didn't use the silver duct tape which rides along all the time in the back of my SUV for various emergencies and preventive measures. I just glared at her.
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2,829 Posts
Broken Rod
The only spey rod I have broken was accomplished riding a mountain bike with the rod rigged on the Deschutes. Iwas tired and the wind took the rod tip into a bush.
I wax and tape my rods when spey casting. I do not tape using heads.
The only spey rod I have broken was accomplished riding a mountain bike with the rod rigged on the Deschutes. Iwas tired and the wind took the rod tip into a bush.
I wax and tape my rods when spey casting. I do not tape using heads.
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1,526 Posts
taping
i never tape anymore;just use a little parafin.never a problem. regards to clear tape,i fished with bob clay this summer. he makes cane rods. he was fishing with a cane spey and it had a ferruleless connection which was taped with some sort of clear tape.
beau
i never tape anymore;just use a little parafin.never a problem. regards to clear tape,i fished with bob clay this summer. he makes cane rods. he was fishing with a cane spey and it had a ferruleless connection which was taped with some sort of clear tape.
beau
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3,042 Posts
Roballen,
If your response was with respect to the original 10151 then you obviously never spent much time around them - tape or no tape, wax up the ying yang - it was just not a viable design - except for shooting heads. It was the sweetest casting rod I've ever used and I dearly lament the fact that Sage could not duplicate the original action with the redesigned 10151.
As for being unlucky or careless, I think the 3rd section break might likely have been a nick or a bruise, but the vast majority of the 10151 explosions were just below the bottom ferrule. The design and the stiff boron in the butt would only flex so far then snap! As much as Sage didn't want to admit to a design flaw that is what it was.
As for taping, it is an absolute must. To those who don't tape, to each his own, but I just don't see why one would chance your day's fishing - let alone a $600-$1000 speyrod over 3 minutes time and 50 cents worth of tape!
I found especially with spiral roll casting big rods and long belly lines that simply winding the tape up and down the ferrule wasn't enough to stop the twisting. It was my friend Per Stadigh who suggested laying 2 strips of tape lengthways along the blank on opposite sides then spiraling the tape up and back over the ferrule. Since I've adopted this technique my twisting problems have dissappeared.
If your response was with respect to the original 10151 then you obviously never spent much time around them - tape or no tape, wax up the ying yang - it was just not a viable design - except for shooting heads. It was the sweetest casting rod I've ever used and I dearly lament the fact that Sage could not duplicate the original action with the redesigned 10151.
As for being unlucky or careless, I think the 3rd section break might likely have been a nick or a bruise, but the vast majority of the 10151 explosions were just below the bottom ferrule. The design and the stiff boron in the butt would only flex so far then snap! As much as Sage didn't want to admit to a design flaw that is what it was.
As for taping, it is an absolute must. To those who don't tape, to each his own, but I just don't see why one would chance your day's fishing - let alone a $600-$1000 speyrod over 3 minutes time and 50 cents worth of tape!
I found especially with spiral roll casting big rods and long belly lines that simply winding the tape up and down the ferrule wasn't enough to stop the twisting. It was my friend Per Stadigh who suggested laying 2 strips of tape lengthways along the blank on opposite sides then spiraling the tape up and back over the ferrule. Since I've adopted this technique my twisting problems have dissappeared.
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1,526 Posts
10151
KUSH,
when you mention the design of the 10151 what do you mean-with the exception of shooting heads? i have one that i have not used since they replaced the butt section many yrs ago.do you mean the loop type heads and is it less likely to break with them?
beau
KUSH,
when you mention the design of the 10151 what do you mean-with the exception of shooting heads? i have one that i have not used since they replaced the butt section many yrs ago.do you mean the loop type heads and is it less likely to break with them?
beau
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1,526 Posts
10151
by the way, i broke mine using a windcutter doing a perrys poke off my upriver left shoulder;butt section at bottom of guide .i also believe i taped then.
by the way, i broke mine using a windcutter doing a perrys poke off my upriver left shoulder;butt section at bottom of guide .i also believe i taped then.
I even tape my single hand trout rods, have been doing so for more than 20 years. Started taping them because I prefer to get the line out on the water in only 1 false cast to change the direction the line is pointing, even if it is a 60 or 70 foot cast. This adds quite a lot of torgue to a rod and the ferrules loosening and twisting on me. After taping them, the twisting and loosening stopped.
I've never broken a spey rod, but I have a friend who broke the original 10151 Sage several in the same spot that others had it break-right below the butt section ferrule when casting a long belly line. Kush, you are right, it was a design flaw. My friend gave up on it after breaking the butt 4 times and sold it to someone who fishes Windcutters. He loved the rod's feel, but didn't like it breaking when casting.
I've never broken a spey rod, but I have a friend who broke the original 10151 Sage several in the same spot that others had it break-right below the butt section ferrule when casting a long belly line. Kush, you are right, it was a design flaw. My friend gave up on it after breaking the butt 4 times and sold it to someone who fishes Windcutters. He loved the rod's feel, but didn't like it breaking when casting.
Kush.. No I was referring to an earlier post. I was not referring to the 10151 or any rod specifically. I am well aware that Sage had a problem with that rod when it first came out.
I believe the one I was responding to was a guy with a T&T and something else, He said that both of them broke when they were brand new. manufacturer defects in rods are extremely rare. I mean like EXTREMELY rare!! I was saying that this guy was unlucky getting 2 rods with such defects and that the fact they both broke soon after they were taken out of the tubes makes the breaks suspect for being manufacturers flaws.
my main point was that most spey rods break because the ferrules are loose. Many that come back to us broke that way and were taped! Taping and or waxing is not a substitute for properly seating the rod sections and checking them often!!!
A loose ferrule break is easy to identify because it occurs on the male end near the ferrule and is usually a very jagged but clean break ( not many loose fibers)
When a rod is broken by being over compressed the rod will collapse or "blow up"
If a rod is stepped on it will have a crushed fracture
If a rod it hit on something there will be a clean fairly straight break.
All i am saying is that people should push their rod sections together almost as hard as they can and check them very often, even if they are waxed and taped.
I believe the one I was responding to was a guy with a T&T and something else, He said that both of them broke when they were brand new. manufacturer defects in rods are extremely rare. I mean like EXTREMELY rare!! I was saying that this guy was unlucky getting 2 rods with such defects and that the fact they both broke soon after they were taken out of the tubes makes the breaks suspect for being manufacturers flaws.
my main point was that most spey rods break because the ferrules are loose. Many that come back to us broke that way and were taped! Taping and or waxing is not a substitute for properly seating the rod sections and checking them often!!!
A loose ferrule break is easy to identify because it occurs on the male end near the ferrule and is usually a very jagged but clean break ( not many loose fibers)
When a rod is broken by being over compressed the rod will collapse or "blow up"
If a rod is stepped on it will have a crushed fracture
If a rod it hit on something there will be a clean fairly straight break.
All i am saying is that people should push their rod sections together almost as hard as they can and check them very often, even if they are waxed and taped.
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3,042 Posts
Beau,
While I do know a few shooting head casters who experienced the 10151 blow-up, it became a regular occurance with long line casters I know. We were calling it the "Mission Impossible Rod" - you know "this rod will self-destruct in 6 casts" in fact it was getting ridiculous. I'm not sure what went on with the rods, I know my first one (which I got as soon as they hit the market) lasted over 2 years before the 3rd section broke, now I don't believe that break was related to design, the replacements however, blew up like clockwork. Dana refused to cast one as they all blew up on him, I refused to use my Speydriver as it was too much line. As RLN said he did 2 in one day!
Per Stadigh used to rib me about the rod destruction saying that he loved his and the shooting head guys in Scandinavia (most everybody) loved the rod and they never broke it! Well, when he returned from Russia that summer he told me that he was no longer a 10151 virgin - he broke 3! So you are right short heads could do it too. It wasn't the size of the ship - but maybe the motion of the ocean had something to do with it? I had a couple of them go during what I considered relatively short casts - not maximum load!
I loved that original rod though, it was totally sweet! I finally demanded and got the redesigned blank from Sage and while it is still a very good rod it does not act like the original. Yes, it stays in 4 pieces (an admirable trait) but it is a little "clubby" when compared to the old rod. It is too bad, for while I fish the new one I constantly long for the old rod's action.
While I do know a few shooting head casters who experienced the 10151 blow-up, it became a regular occurance with long line casters I know. We were calling it the "Mission Impossible Rod" - you know "this rod will self-destruct in 6 casts" in fact it was getting ridiculous. I'm not sure what went on with the rods, I know my first one (which I got as soon as they hit the market) lasted over 2 years before the 3rd section broke, now I don't believe that break was related to design, the replacements however, blew up like clockwork. Dana refused to cast one as they all blew up on him, I refused to use my Speydriver as it was too much line. As RLN said he did 2 in one day!
Per Stadigh used to rib me about the rod destruction saying that he loved his and the shooting head guys in Scandinavia (most everybody) loved the rod and they never broke it! Well, when he returned from Russia that summer he told me that he was no longer a 10151 virgin - he broke 3! So you are right short heads could do it too. It wasn't the size of the ship - but maybe the motion of the ocean had something to do with it? I had a couple of them go during what I considered relatively short casts - not maximum load!
I loved that original rod though, it was totally sweet! I finally demanded and got the redesigned blank from Sage and while it is still a very good rod it does not act like the original. Yes, it stays in 4 pieces (an admirable trait) but it is a little "clubby" when compared to the old rod. It is too bad, for while I fish the new one I constantly long for the old rod's action.
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