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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This year, I have found the Rio Outbound WF 10 Wt floater to be a really great line for my Sage 5120 and Meiser 5/6 Switch Rod. At first I was just interested in Skagit casting the OB with these rods. The rods and this OB are a great Skagit match. I have, also, found that this OB is a great all around Spey line with both rods. These rods and this OB will be my main trout, smaller shad and small mouth bass rods. A 15' leader for the 5120 and a 10' leader for the 5/6 Switch rod and a couple of feet of tippet works well with dries and intermediates. Also a weighted fly in normal flows sinks very well with these leaders, and I may not need many sinking tips. That makes life easier. This OB line and a sinking fly with an overhead/underhand casts and these rods get into "This is too easy and WoW :Eyecrazy: stage!".

However, in N California due to the heavy rains this past winter and spring, we might have very high and heavy water flows until late fall. So for Shad Fishing on the American and probably the Sac and maybe the Russian with these high flows, my main stick will probably be my Sage 6126-3. A 3-5 pound hen Shad in these high waters might be too much for the 5120 and 5/6 Switch Rod and the fish. Two years ago with heavy flows that were off and on, I saw a lot of killed Shad and dying Shad due to so called Sportsmen using 5 and 6 wt one handed rods. These :mad: "Sports" took forever to get a hooked Shad in for the release.

So my 6126 will probably be my main Shad Rod in the anticipated high water flows. It works well with the Skagit 450, the MS 7/8 with tips and the WC 678 with tips. Life is a lot easier with an OB in areas where there are other fishers, and overhead/underhand casting needs to be done not to interfer with the one handed fly rodders and Spin fishers in a Shad line. Setting up a Spey cast or a Skagit cast :roll: doesn't go over very well with the other fishers who in line with you on both sides.

Has anyone found a good match up with a Rio Outbound Floater and the Sage 6126-3?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Actually, the Rio Outbound WF 10 Floater works very well

I just got back from my local river with some very high winds, a low tide and bad casting areas re no back casts and no wading.

On a whim I decided to try the Rio Outbound WF 10 Floater with a 15' leader, 2.5' of tippet and a good size dry fly, size 4 with my Sage 6126-3.

This line worked very well with this rod. It did a credible job with the Double Spey Skagit cast and Edgit's Skagit Poke Cast. It preformed very well with my irregular double spey, snake rolls and even my poor Single Spey was adequate. You can effortlessly roll cast the head and 17.5' of leader/tippet with the head just past the rod tip while standing on the edge of the water. That works out to about 67' of effortless roll casting from where you are standing.

Grampa's comical imitation Wombat cast was not bad, and I was shooting 2-3 rod lengths of running line on each cast with no back cast loop. ;) Add another 25 to 37' to the 67' calculation above.

My ugly overhead/underhand whatever cast sliced through the strong cross wind very well with the light fly and had more authority and reliability against a a very strong cross wind than my Sage 5120 has with this OB. :whoa: This wounded duck cast was shooting 2-4 rod lengths of running line on each ugly cast.

I wonder if Simon can get me a discount on this particuliar OB line. ;) It works very well with the Sage 6126, 5120 and Meise's 5/6 Switchrod. The OB WF 10 Floater will probably be my spring/summer/fall and early winter rod for these 3 rods.
 

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Weight info

Dave,
Here is some info that you might consider...

A "properly" weighted line for Skagit casting is too heavy to give optimum performance for overhead casting.

I have found 590 grains to be an ideal match for Skagit casting the 6126. I also use the same exact line/weight to cast my Loomis 7/8 Stinger, so the rods both are in the same "weight" class, just a bit different in action. The past couple days, out of curiousity, I have been playing with overhead casting my Stinger out in the backyard, just to see how much lighter the grain rating would turn out to be, and how that would match up with standard single-handed line ratings. I settled on 252 grains as working quite well on overheading the Stinger. AFTMA line standards rate a #9 as being 240 grains, a #10 as 290. So, somewhere between a 9 and 10 would probably be a very good working weight for overheading the 6126.

It is interesting to note that in the past there has been some contention over using "light Speys" for steelhead. Well, at least in the case of the two rods discussed, the equivalent power rating is a singlehanded NINE! Just think of what the heavier rated Doubles work out to be...twelves, thirteens, fifteens!? No wonder steelhead don't fight quite like they used too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Ed for the data.

Riveraddict said:
Dave,
Here is some info that you might consider...

A "properly" weighted line for Skagit casting is too heavy to give optimum performance for overhead casting.

I have found 590 grains to be an ideal match for Skagit casting the 6126. I also use the same exact line/weight to cast my Loomis 7/8 Stinger, so the rods both are in the same "weight" class, just a bit different in action. The past couple days, out of curiousity, I have been playing with overhead casting my Stinger out in the backyard, just to see how much lighter the grain rating would turn out to be, and how that would match up with standard single-handed line ratings. I settled on 252 grains as working quite well on overheading the Stinger. AFTMA line standards rate a #9 as being 240 grains, a #10 as 290. So, somewhere between a 9 and 10 would probably be a very good working weight for overheading the 6126.

It is interesting to note that in the past there has been some contention over using "light Speys" for steelhead. Well, at least in the case of the two rods discussed, the equivalent power rating is a singlehanded NINE! Just think of what the heavier rated Doubles work out to be...twelves, thirteens, fifteens!? No wonder steelhead don't fight quite like they used too!
Ed, last year, I found out that the Edgit 450 and a tip somewhere between 90 to 130-140 grains worked very well with my 6126. The best tip for my 6126, 5120 and Meise's 5/6 Switch rod is the Rio 12' Powerflex 7 IPS @ 126 grains. this probably ties in with your revised Edgit best head+tip formula. At that time the 6126 recommendations didn't cover the Edgit 450 and some form of the WC without tip 1 & 2 were recommended, which never loaded my 6126. Bob Pauli and I found that my 6126 worked fine with a 550 using his, Mike's and Scott's Skagit hauser technique.

Re the fishing power of these two so called light sticks, I can catch a 3-4# Shad on the American river with the 6126 and not have to wade into shore to bring the Shad in to release it. With my old Sage 8 wt 9.5' RPL which worked best with 9 and 10 wt lines, I had to back up to the shore with that rod. Also, the 6126 at Putah Creek with some high flows basically manhandled/subdued 3-4+ pound trout. A 2-3 # Small Mouth Bass on the Russian River felt like a 12 inch fish on my old RPL. This is the reason I went to the Sage 5126.

Thanks for the data re overhead casting. In my boat, the OB Sinking lines become different critters and even with my Meiser 9/10 Switch rod, it starts to max out at 350 to 400 grains of OB sinking line which is the same for the Rio One Handed lines with this rod. It works best with the Rio Striper 350 grain / 26 DC head. It does very well with the Edgit 650 and a heavy tip over 150 grains on a river bank or wading. I hope to try some of my floating OB lines with my Meiser rods in the next week or so in my boat.

We will be heading to the Speyorama in a couple hours. If you are there, I will stop by to chat with you. Thanks again for the clear and concise data.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The Rio Outbound WF11F works even better with the 6126

Yesterday at the great Speyorama, Simon let me try The Rio Outbound WF11F @ 465 grains with my Sage 6126-3.

It worked even better than the OB WF10F in my clumsy hands. It was amazing in Simon's hands.

Even in my clumsy inexperienced hands with only some yarn at the end of a Rio 15' leader, it sliced through some heavy swirling winds. I'm sure a fly with just the hook weight would even be better.

One little sidebar, Simon casted my Sage 5120 with the OB WF 10F. Of course Simon could use a broom stick and look great, however, what he did with that combo was very impressive. Simon's comment when he handed my rod back to me, "This should be against the law!" with the big Simon grin.

The Sage 6126-3 does a good job with the MS 6/7 or 7/8 unless there is a strong cross wind or swirly wind into my face. I had been going to a WC 678. At this time the OB WF11F will be my main spring, summer, fall line for my 6126 with the Skagit 450 for winter use and probably Shad. Speaking of Shad, they are in the Russian River just below Healdsburg. The river at Healdsburg should be wadeable and fishable by tomorrow or next week.
 

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Grampa Spey said:
Speaking of Shad, they are in the Russian River just below Healdsburg. The river at Healdsburg should be wadeable and fishable by tomorrow or next week.
Dave,

I'll been in Jenner next weekend. Can I expect the run to still be moving through? Moving upstream as needed shouldn't be a problem.

I'll have my 6/7 torridge and the OB 10wt ready to go. Plus some pink and chartreuse shad flies.

Thanks!


Tom
 

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Tom, you might be there at the right time

pcknshvl said:
Dave,

I'll been in Jenner next weekend. Can I expect the run to still be moving through? Moving upstream as needed shouldn't be a problem.

I'll have my 6/7 torridge and the OB 10wt ready to go. Plus some pink and chartreuse shad flies.

Thanks!


Tom
Tie a few similiar flies in Bright Orange.

On the Russian with normal flows, I have found that Rio's 15' Steelhead Leader or their 10' normal leaders and 2-3' of tippet are all that is needed to get down to where the shad are. I try to stick to 8# tippet, FC, with a loop at the fishing end with the line ran through the eye of the line and then a two to 3" loop tied. This allows the flies to swing in more natural movement. If you start hitting bottom and breaking off go up to the next largest tippet size. I have Rio's 7' sinking leaders in an assortment if I have to get down deeper and faster. Their 12' sinking leaders for most parts of the Russian are too long and will catch on the bottom. Rio's standard 15' sinking tips are too long and will snag the bottom from May until the winter rains. I may buy some T-8 and tie some various lengths. I have T14, but its just too heavy for most of the Russian at this time of year. Of course if the Rio 7' sinking leaders work, I'm lazy and will use them.

Below is link that might help you. Besure to check out Casini's Ranch and any holes below Casinis and Jenner.

Best of luck!

sjflyshop.com/aspnuke/forum/forum.asp?forum=5&section=21&post=45
 

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Intermediate and Sinking OB Lines

I have a year 2000 vintage Sage 6126 (the brown colored rod)and a recently purchased TFO 12'6" 8wt. I am interested in overhead casting these rods in the Great Lakes surf for steelhead (I now live very near Lake Erie) as well as in the surf of the Atlantic Ocean and its bays for stripers (when I visit friends where I used to live). I will most likely also try casting these rods from my boat (a 23' center console) in these waters. Based on this and other threads it looks like the 11wt OB just may be the ticket for both of these rods. Do y'all agree?

Most references to this line refer to it in the floating version. Given my applications is this what I should go with? The reason I ask is from previous surf fishing with single handed rods the recommenmdation was very often to use intermediate lines or even lines with sinking heads to get the line below the rumbling wave action often faced in the surf fishing environment. Besides these lines often cast easier/farther than floaters on those windy days so often present.

You thoughts on line selection for my intended applications will be appreciated. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Joe G., Casting from a boat becomes a different issue versus casting while wading

JoeG said:
I have a year 2000 vintage Sage 6126 (the brown colored rod)and a recently purchased TFO 12'6" 8wt. I am interested in overhead casting these rods in the Great Lakes surf for steelhead (I now live very near Lake Erie) as well as in the surf of the Atlantic Ocean and its bays for stripers (when I visit friends where I used to live). I will most likely also try casting these rods from my boat (a 23' center console) in these waters. Based on this and other threads it looks like the 11wt OB just may be the ticket for both of these rods. Do y'all agree?

Most references to this line refer to it in the floating version. Given my applications is this what I should go with? The reason I ask is from previous surf fishing with single handed rods the recommenmdation was very often to use intermediate lines or even lines with sinking heads to get the line below the rumbling wave action often faced in the surf fishing environment. Besides these lines often cast easier/farther than floaters on those windy days so often present.

You thoughts on line selection for my intended applications will be appreciated. Thanks.
Joe, below are Ed Ward's comments about overhead casting re line weights.

Dave,
Here is some info that you might consider...

A "properly" weighted line for Skagit casting is too heavy to give optimum performance for overhead casting.

I have found 590 grains to be an ideal match for Skagit casting the 6126. I also use the same exact line/weight to cast my Loomis 7/8 Stinger, so the rods both are in the same "weight" class, just a bit different in action. The past couple days, out of curiousity, I have been playing with overhead casting my Stinger out in the backyard, just to see how much lighter the grain rating would turn out to be, and how that would match up with standard single-handed line ratings. I settled on 252 grains as working quite well on overheading the Stinger. AFTMA line standards rate a #9 as being 240 grains, a #10 as 290. So, somewhere between a 9 and 10 would probably be a very good working weight for overheading the 6126."

Joe, last year a friend and I found that a Rio OB 8wt fast sink line with the intermediate running just about overwhelmed a Meiser 7/8 Switch Rod while casting from my boat with a striper fly. We had to pull the head in about 7-8 feet past the rod tip to set up the Overhead cast and not let any line until we came to the stop part of the forward cast. Then, the fly and line shot out like a laser.

Later in the year, we found that same 7/8 Switch rod to be perfectly balanced with the Skagit 450 grain line and the appropriate 7/8 weight tips when casting while wading in a river.

Last but not least, if I am in a boat, I will never fish with any two handed rod longer than 10' 6" which is the length of Meiser's Switch Rods. I have had a couple of near disasters trying to bring even a 3-6 pound fish with a 12' or longer two handed rod. If those fish had been in the 10 plus pound range, my rods would have become 9' or shorter rods.

My main river striper rod is Meise's 9/10 10'6" switch rod. The rod whips a 10 to 12 pound striper on the shore or beach with no problem. In the boat it whips the same size striper until you start to grab its lips with a lip grabber, then it gets really dicey. I end up asking my son to help me inspite of being called a woosie. A 9' or shorter rod don't have this negative leverage to deal with like the longer rods do.
 

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Am I missing something?

Sorry to hijack this thread but its on the subject of matching lines for overhand casting a light two hander....Hopefully my comments will be viewed as somewhat on-topic.

I've never cast a 5120 but I imagine its similar to my 12'2" CND 5/6/7, given that they both cast a WC 5/6.

I was interested in dialing-in this rod for overhand casting, because when I'm stripping a line in to the rod tip to attract following fish, as is the case for a lot of my fishing in saltwater, lakes and in the frog-water pools of rivers, a spey cast is just not posssible without shaking all the line back out and then roll casting to get it set up on the dangle.

I did some test casting on my CND with a range of AFTMA lines in weights of #6-#9 + a 300 grain 24' tip line looking for the right match. I found I could execute a decent overhand cast on every one of these lines! Heh- maybe they should call it a 5/6/7/8/9/etc! Some lines were floaters some sinktips and some full sink. Some were cheap and some where nearly used up...I used what I had on hand.

Here is what I found:

the WF 6wt line was clearly too light but could be conceivably used if a real light presentation was necessary. A single hand overhead cast was best. A double-haul helped.

Same for 7wt- I could cast my lines to the backing knot on WF7 (quite a feat for me even though it was only 60-70' with these lower-end lines I have). I tried a floater and a full sink. The best cast was again a single hand double-haul. The full sink makes an awesome lake line when trout are deep... My automatic reel (CND sacrelidge?) balances the rod quite nicely and the result is an awesome float tube setup for lakes. I have already caught trout on this setup.

Going to an 8wt the feel changed dramatically. I found that a two-handed cast was better. I used a 10' type iii sinktip. I had some problems with tailing loops that could perhaps be corrected with practice.

WF9F (A modified orvis tropical line with braided mono core). This achieved the best distance, but it had a distinctly over-powered feel. I could see using this when distance was critical, as in in surf fishing. Again the cast was two-hand overhand. Spey casts would be possible with this weight.

300 grain type 6 24' tip. This was getting to the 'chuck and duck' stage- One backcast and let 'er rip. Maybe it is the best match for rod loading, but the feeling of finesse was all gone...which is part of the beauty of this rod. I also bough this as a trout rod and the thought of using this line for my intended quarry just seems incredibly heavy handed.

Overall I liked the feeling of the 7 wt lines for single hand and 8weight for double hand. I could feel the rod loading and could finesse the timing for optimum loop delivery. A sloppy technique however would ruin the cast. I leaned a little about casting with these lines- encouraging me to be a better caster by not rewarding my mistakes.

I would love to try an Outbound 9 or 10 based on how much fun folks seem to be having with their 5 and 6 wt Speys. But I suspect that I might end up with a OB 7 or 8 if I had chance to evaluate them all. Do you guys really feel that an OB10 is a match for your #5 spey rod, or are you just matching grain weights and going for distance? Has anyone else found that lower grain weights work better for overhead casting (compared to you favorite spey line_ How much less do you go? AFTMA grain weights for 7wt is about half of my WC 5/6, is this typical?

Oh I almost forgot. I do have a Spey line- a WC 5/6. And I do Spey Cast with this rod. This also makes an awesome nymph set up. It actually overhands nicely with the WC line too which adds to the confusion for me, because a WC is 365 grain and feels like a feather while the 300 grain head felt like I had a 2oz sinker on the end of the line.

ChrisW
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Chris, your CND light rod experiences sound a lot like mine w/light Sages

ChrisW said:
Sorry to hijack this thread but its on the subject of matching lines for overhand casting a light two hander....Hopefully my comments will be viewed as somewhat on-topic.

I've never cast a 5120 but I imagine its similar to my 12'2" CND 5/6/7, given that they both cast a WC 5/6.

I was interested in dialing-in this rod for overhand casting, because when I'm stripping a line in to the rod tip to attract following fish, as is the case for a lot of my fishing in saltwater, lakes and in the frog-water pools of rivers, a spey cast is just not posssible without shaking all the line back out and then roll casting to get it set up on the dangle.

I did some test casting on my CND with a range of AFTMA lines in weights of #6-#9 + a 300 grain 24' tip line looking for the right match. I found I could execute a decent overhand cast on every one of these lines! Heh- maybe they should call it a 5/6/7/8/9/etc! Some lines were floaters some sinktips and some full sink. Some were cheap and some where nearly used up...I used what I had on hand.

Here is what I found:

the WF 6wt line was clearly too light but could be conceivably used if a real light presentation was necessary. A single hand overhead cast was best. A double-haul helped.

Same for 7wt- I could cast my lines to the backing knot on WF7 (quite a feat for me even though it was only 60-70' with these lower-end lines I have). I tried a floater and a full sink. The best cast was again a single hand double-haul. The full sink makes an awesome lake line when trout are deep... My automatic reel (CND sacrelidge?) balances the rod quite nicely and the result is an awesome float tube setup for lakes. I have already caught trout on this setup.

Going to an 8wt the feel changed dramatically. I found that a two-handed cast was better. I used a 10' type iii sinktip. I had some problems with tailing loops that could perhaps be corrected with practice.

WF9F (A modified orvis tropical line with braided mono core). This achieved the best distance, but it had a distinctly over-powered feel. I could see using this when distance was critical, as in in surf fishing. Again the cast was two-hand overhand. Spey casts would be possible with this weight.

300 grain type 6 24' tip. This was getting to the 'chuck and duck' stage- One backcast and let 'er rip. Maybe it is the best match for rod loading, but the feeling of finesse was all gone...which is part of the beauty of this rod. I also bough this as a trout rod and the thought of using this line for my intended quarry just seems incredibly heavy handed.

Overall I liked the feeling of the 7 wt lines for single hand and 8weight for double hand. I could feel the rod loading and could finesse the timing for optimum loop delivery. A sloppy technique however would ruin the cast. I leaned a little about casting with these lines- encouraging me to be a better caster by not rewarding my mistakes.

I would love to try an Outbound 9 or 10 based on how much fun folks seem to be having with their 5 and 6 wt Speys. But I suspect that I might end up with a OB 7 or 8 if I had chance to evaluate them all. Do you guys really feel that an OB10 is a match for your #5 spey rod, or are you just matching grain weights and going for distance? Has anyone else found that lower grain weights work better for overhead casting (compared to you favorite spey line_ How much less do you go? AFTMA grain weights for 7wt is about half of my WC 5/6, is this typical?

Oh I almost forgot. I do have a Spey line- a WC 5/6. And I do Spey Cast with this rod. This also makes an awesome nymph set up. It actually overhands nicely with the WC line too which adds to the confusion for me, because a WC is 365 grain and feels like a feather while the 300 grain head felt like I had a 2oz sinker on the end of the line.

ChrisW
Chris, your experiences sound similiar to mine with the 5120 with the exception of the Rio WC 5/6, which never worked for me (also, many others who have tried it).

Wading or casting from the shore, the OB WF10 F, is a perfect match for spey casts and Skagit/Edgit casts in my inexperienced hands for my 5120. Last Friday at the Speyorama, Simon cast my 5120 with the OBWF 10 F. Of course Simon could cast a broom stick and any old fly line and look great, however, the results were in the awesome category. My OB WF 8F line didn't load my 5120 or Meiser's 5/6 Switch Rod.

Last year, after my WC 5/6 failed me, and I couldn't find a good match for me with the heavy WC's w/o tips 1 & 2, I tried some of the older 6, 7, and 8 wt one handed lines with the rod in smaller streams, and the rod worked very well with them (no spey casting). Even with an injured and recovering right arm/shoulder, I had similiar experiences to yours, with the one handed lines. Rio's 6 wt Nymph line worked very well in tight quarters, high sticking and other nymphing endeavors. I have two older Air flo one handed lines a 6 and an 8 wt with the tips. The 6 weight worked in smaller and tighter quarters. The 8 wt was an excellent line. In fact I used the 8 wt floating tip with my Skagit 450 a lot last summer. With a 15' leader and 2-3' of tippet, that was an excellent dry fly line.


The reply that Ed Ward gave me about my 6126 and the weight windows, is excellent in that it gives us insight into the grain window ranges of these smaller rods. Also Ed points out that these rods are in reality similiar to 7/8 weight one handed rods. I would say my 6126 is more like an 8/9 on the heavy side, one handed rod, and my 5120 is more like a 7/8 even the old T&T 6 wt 10'+ rod.

I have found similiar line results with Meiser's switch rods. In fact my joke :hihi: w/Bob was the challenge of trying to find a line that didn't work with his switch rods.

The rod makers will see a higher demand for these lighter rods as more people find out their capabilites and how much fun they are to use :cool: .

You need to ask Kush these questions as he works with CND. I think that CND has some new lines also. You "little" CND rod sounds great for your fishing needs. It is a lot of fun to have a rod that is capable of doing well with a lot of lines, particuliarly if you ;) own them.
 

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Chris

The WC 5/6 has a pretty long and fine front tip, so overhead with it is no big surprise. The 300 grain head has a lot mor grains per foot, so again no surprise that it felt a little "clunky" on the overhead.
 

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t_richerzhagen said:
The WC 5/6 has a pretty long and fine front tip, so overhead with it is no big surprise. The 300 grain head has a lot mor grains per foot, so again no surprise that it felt a little "clunky" on the overhead.
Wouldn't the 300 grain be a little like an OB 10? I have never cast an OB line but don't they have the weight more up front than normal tapers? iF so it seems that it might have a similar feel.

I guess what I'm looking for is a good saltwater line for punching some distance but comfortable enough to fish all day and light enough not to disturb fish near the surface.

Anyone know if there is a way I could try an OB 8,9,10 in the Seattle area? Is it reasonable to expect to try a line before you buy? Or should pay my money and take my chances...

CW
 

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Cw

Send a PM to Aaron at River Run Anglers. He has a great selection of lines and is a sponsor of this site. He may have included Outbound lines in his try rack.

Personally, I have become very reluctant to purchase without having a chance to try a line with my rods. I have a fair number that were supposed to be good, but did not work for me. I suppose I should offer these up for what I can get as they have had almost no use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sean/Dana, Re lines that didn't work out for us

"Personally, I have become very reluctant to purchase without having a chance to try a line with my rods. I have a fair number that were supposed to be good, but did not work for me. I suppose I should offer these up for what I can get as they have had almost no use."

We all have been there and done that. Finding the right line/lines for each two handed rod has to be one of the most frustrating part of our addiction to two handed rods. What works for you may not work for my or someone else.

After we try to sell these unmatched lines, and no one wants to buy them. We might want to donate them to the site for others to try them for a small donation to the site and the cost of sending the lines back and forth. Then, if they like the line, they can order that line from one of our sponsors.

My OB WF 8F didn't work properly on my Meiser 5/6, and the OB WF 10F did. I will try the OB WF 8F with my Meiser Rods in my boat and on the shore to see if it works there. If it doesn't work there, and I can't sell it, it could become a donation.

Fortunately, at the Speyorama, Simon let me try the OB WF 11F on my Sage 6126. It worked much better than my OB WF 10 F, so I will not be buying an extra OB WF 10F.

I was able to sell my WC 5/6. I gave my oldest heir my 9/10 Accelerator.

I could donate my old Grandspey 7/8, except I will keep the tips for my Skagit 550 and 650.
 
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