[Bob Pauli]

At this year's Sandy Clave, I lawn cast a Hardy 8 or 8/9 wt. GEM spey rod with the Mach 1 line. Mr. Murray was coaching me, and when I remarked that the oufit was the fastest action I have ever cast, by a huge margin, Mr. Murray agreed saying the rod "...was definitely for pingers." A pinger is a caster with a fast short stroke, I believe.

The Mach 1 fly line head weighs 338 grains per Mr. Murray and Speybum's earlier post. This is incredibly light for an 8 or 9 weight spey rod.

For comparisons I list Rio's head weights [grain weight ranges due to difference in TC Compensator vs. T2 Float]:
•WC 5/6 365 grains.
• WC 6.7.8 460 to 485 grains
• MS 6.7 490 to 527
• WC 7.8.9 490 to 527 grains
• MS 7.8 560 to 581
• WC 8.9.10 585 to 608
• MS 8.9 640 to 681

The Hardy line/rod combo makes Simon's A ratings look slow. I do not understand how a 9 wt rod, for example, can cast well with 338 grain line.

Will the more experienced spey folks who have cast the GEM/Mach 1 combination please educate me about usefullness of this setup?

Many thanks, Bob

 

[Dana]

I think...

Bob, I think the GEM and the Mach 1 set ups were designed to break Hardy into the Scandinavian market where faster action rods and shooting heads dominate. Short head lengths and quick rods work well together. I cast this combination in a 9 weight in March and it felt quick to me too, but I liked it (mind you, I like faster rods with shooting heads to begin with). I have several Mach 1 lines in 9 weight that I have tried with my 9 wt rods and I find them a little on the light side for the faster rods like my Loops. I would be more inclined to use these lines on my Loop 8 weights. They feel a little better to me on more traditional action rods at their line ratings (a 9wt CND or Daiwa, for example), but I would still want to step up a line weight or down a rod weight to get the feel that I prefer.

I think they are as useful as any other rod/line combination--how an angler chooses to use them is a matter of personal preference and interpretation. They are one-piece shooting head systems, which does limit their versatility somewhat. I'd be inclined to cut the heads off the running line and loop them so that you could interchange them similar to the Loop Adapted head systems.

 

[juro]

Hi Bob,

Interestingly the AFTMA rating for 9wt is 240, so I guess 338 (just over 11wt by AFTMA standards) would seem right to cast well on a 9wt rod although by spey standards (oxymoron) it's very light to your point. Perhaps it's the average spey lines that are a bit out of whack

It could be that grains over the length of the head is key. Nobuo enjoyed casting some of my saltwater lines on various spey rods at the casting pond in Denver (report to follow) and surprisingly my 11wt striper lines cast fishably well on some spey rods (for him anyway ) especially the Wulff triangle tapers.

I've cast the Hardy setup at Sandy as well, and found it super-efficient and pleasant to cast. Marlow put one of the Mach I heads on his 1308 Custom and that cast like a rocket as well so any rod with good reserve guts will work well with that line. The new Skagit lines are similarly compact and super-efficient, suited to fine-tuned sinktip systems used by steelheaders and rods that load fully with high modulus. Rio has produced a new spey head as well that I am very anxious to try.

After fishing the Gaspe recently I realize that for summer atlantic salmon fishing in mid-size rivers the presentation methods can sometimes make even a mid-length line seem long. The hard swing and strip works best with a compact head, and since the strip is an important part of the presentation the ease of casting and ability to handle tips is very cool.

Heck while striper fishing I strip the entire line one twitch at a time, and head length only plays a part in ease of the next cast.

Conversely while steelheading in summer or anytime really I prefer to strip the minimum amount since it adds no value to the fishing effort, but since sinktips work best on shorter lines like the Windcutter, Delta, and these wonderful new lines for winter steelhead. Visions of wild chrome in glaciallly tinted waters will get me to strip line all day!

 

[fredaevans]

Rio has produced a new spey head as well that I am very anxious to try.

Juro, any info on this new product?
fae

 

[JR SPEY]

Fred,

There are four versions of the Scandinavian heads. All are 44' long. One version is strictly a floating line. The second is a floater with a 15' intermediate tip. The third version is what they're calling a tri-color. It has a floating body, an intermediate middle section and a type three 15' DC tip. The final version is a multi-tip much like the Windcutter, etc. It comes with all four tips and a shooting head wallet. They are available in 7/8,8/9,9/10,10/11. and 11/12 weights. Since the show committee, in their infinite wisdom, removed the spey casting pool this year, I didn't feel it was safe to test any spey gear. I went there with the idea of testing the CND rods, but the other two casting pools were shoulder-to-shoulder with single-handed casters, and I didn't feel it was safe for me or for those who would be near me to try and speycast on these pools. That's a long-winded way of saying I did not cast any of the Rio heads. Hope this helps.

 

[Whistler]

I too was dissappointed in the lack of a proper speypool at this years show. It is my understanding that this situation will be rectified at next years event. Crowds be damned I did manage a fair amount of test casting, usually from the far end of the pool back towards and across the 'driving range'. Spey highlights for me included Juro's CND rods, the new Loop 11'6" #9 green and the funny smelling Rio Scandinavian heads. As for the latter-they feature fairly aggressive front tapers and will be well suited to hurling large bugs. The lines are quite heavy for their prescribed line weights and feature a cut to suit back end. As such Rio includes an extensive guide to line surgery depending on the heads intended use and the casters' level of skill. In general I think hacking off 4' should get the line working well for most people on fast action rods in the same line weight.
Brian N

 

[juro]

Fred, Jr Spey's account of the new Rio lines is far more than I could have offered, thanks JR! I will be ordering mine from Simon, and Nobuo already has some to try.

Brian, it was a real pleasure meeting you and I'm very glad you liked the rods although I must make a correction they are Nobuo's rods and I am just the caddy

The missing spey pool was the biggest snafu for certain. After a mishap with a guest who was trying a rod, that type A guy in the hat booth in that corner freaked out and called security on me. I was not even the one casting, but as the one providing the rod I guess I could be to blame - but they made sure I was unable to cast there for the rest of the show. Funny, they only called security when I went over there, and did not call security for any other casters in the same spot, which were numerous. I guess if I were a hat vendor at a national fly show I'd be pissed at the world too :devil:

ANYWAY... this worked out very positively. The GES staff specifically come over to talk to me (the "offender") about what they needed for 2004. As luck would have it, Simon Gawesworth and Nobuo were standing right there and we collectively presented a plan for the next show, which they appreciated. I hope they live up to their offer!

It's clear that the interest is growing in spey and things two-handed, and I strongly encourage anyone who will attend in 2004 to contact the show staff at flyfishingretailer.com and/or GES to urge the group to provide a spey pool in 2004. Or even if you are not attending, it will only help us all as consumers to get the show attendees to be able to qualify products more effectively.

Certainly would have answered a ton of line questions in my head given the chance to try them, including these new Rio lines.

Indeed the greatest pleasure of attending the show was to put so many faces to names, it was really great meeting everyone!

 

[Maxg]

"There are four versions of the Scandinavian heads. All are 44' long. One version is strictly a floating line. The second is a floater with a 15' intermediate tip. The third version is what they're calling a tri-color. It has a floating body, an intermediate middle section and a type three 15' DC tip. The final version is a multi-tip much like the Windcutter, etc. It comes with all four tips and a shooting head wallet. They are available in 7/8,8/9,9/10,10/11. and 11/12 weights".

Where, what are they, and who makes them and how much. Max

 

[JR SPEY]

They are Rio's re-introduction of the Scandinavian heads. They are available from any Rio dealer. The floating, floating/intermediate, and tri-color are all $38.00. The multi-tip version is $85.00.

 

[Maxg]

Any idea of the full length line weight, say for 11/12. in gns.
At 44 feet by AFTMA standards it should be about 570, but is that actually what it is. Max

 

[Whistler]

Max, I think the AFTMa standards aren't that relevant in this specific application. The Rio Scandinavian shooting head #11/12 weighs in at 845 grains at 44.5' (total head). Make sure you don't get that running line tangled around your leg or else! Keep in mind these lines were designed to be cut back for a precise match.
Brian N

 

[Maxg]

Thank you. That might just work, a bit light from all accounts but a pretty good start. Thanks Max