[PNWspey]

Hello everyone,

Just looking for some insight on a configuration of the Hardy Marquis Salmon drag. I have an older model with a dark face, beautiful reel, and wondering if anyone engages both pawls? See pic. It really adds tension, but I'm not sure if there are any confirmed long-term issues doing this?

Thoughts? Experiences?

Thanks in advance

 

[salmo_g]

Mine are set up with one pawl engaged. I'm not sure why one would want to have both engaged, but I don't see why it would cause any problems either.

Sg

 

[fish0n4evr]

Same as above - single pawl engaged.

Beautiful! About as clean as I've seen and it looks like an older reel, judging by the brass foot. As you know, the L or R pawl are engaged according to winding direction. Engaging both increases the probability of one of them slipping from it's post, possibly marring the finish inside of this marvelously clean reel.

 

[yoda1]

Every time the two-pawl issue comes up...

...somewhere a Hardy reel tech cringes.

Hardy's opinion has been consistent as far as I know: 'engaging both pawls will at a minimum wear the gear prematurely'.

I've tried it briefly and found that while tension is increased, it makes the outgoing reel movement "jumpy", like a wheel out of balance.

If you want more tension in the "drag" (and who doesn't?), contact Hardy repair USA or Archuletta, and get yourself a set of Bougle springs--if I remember correctly, they are part # 406. Hint: they mic out at .031" or thereabouts as opposed to the stock spring at .025" thickness.

I've performed this modification on two Hardy Marquis Salmon 1's with very good results, and have been able to avoid even considering engaging the second pawl.

Greg

 

[FKrow]

I have an old Hardy St. John from the late 1920's. The pawl is worn away with a groove cut out where it contacts the spool gear. The spool gear is mint with no marks or wear present.

Unless the current design is significantly changed,, the spool gear is considerably harder than the pawl and should not be damaged.

I have several friends who engage both pawls,, mainly for the noise factor,,, look at me,,,,,,, I have a fish on!

Regards,
FK

 

[PNWspey]

Thanks

I appreciate all the input. This is a reel that I can't even tell has been fished at all. It's like new, shiny brass foot and all. That being said...I still want to put it to use. For me, it balances so well on a Meiser I was lucky enough to get recently. I really like the idea of putting Bougle springs on it rather than engaging both pawls. I'll give Hardy or Bill Archuleta a call and give that a shot.

Great idea yoda1

Thanks again!

 

[Eastside]

Just let them run! By the time that you account for line running through the guides, that's all the drag you need. I had that same reel but changed over to an Abel Spey. I sort of miss the Hardy but the Abel is very nice. Enjoy the "old school" technology. I agree with what has been said about a nice clean reel.

Mark

 

[yoda1]

"Just let 'em run"...

No argument with that logic at all.

My main rationale for going with the heavier springs in the Marquis was to avoid spool over-run when a really hot fish nails your fly with the rod tip low to the water and takes the reel from dead stop to full reel RPM in nano-seconds, then stops again abruptly as the fish re-positions itself. One instance of that was enough to make the change to heavier springs, and they fixed the issue. You can now jerk hard on the line right at the reel with zero over-spin.

To each his own, just explaining why I found it important.

Interestingly, I have never experienced the same issue with the St. John. One possible explanation could be the smaller spool diameter? Not sure.

 

[camosled]

spool over-run

No argument with that logic at all.

My main rationale for going with the heavier springs in the Marquis was to avoid spool over-run when a really hot fish nails your fly with the rod tip low to the water and takes the reel from dead stop to full reel RPM in nano-seconds, then stops again abruptly as the fish re-positions itself. One instance of that was enough to make the change to heavier springs, and they fixed the issue. You can now jerk hard on the line right at the reel with zero over-spin.

To each his own, just explaining why I found it important.

Interestingly, I have never experienced the same issue with the St. John. One possible explanation could be the smaller spool diameter? Not sure.

I have a number of Hardy reels: Some need both pawls engaged, others don't to avoid a near free spool on a hot fish. I don't like to crank down the spring with the drag tensioner because it just wears them out sooner.

On thing to watch for is the pawl itself when you engage it; make sure it is on the post exactly as the other is or you have one pawl set for a right hand retrieve and the other set for a left hand retrieve. They are fighting each other in this configuration. You can flip them to match their orientation. The one in the picture above is set up for left hand retrieve under max spring tension.

JM

 

[Green Butt]

I've played around with this issue for several years with several Marquis Salmon reels. For me the double engagement also gave jerky drag start up. I've got a NO1 now that think the teeth are just too worn down as I put on new springs and pawls but is still on the loose side. The picture is from a fast hard grab that happened when my fingers slipped and before I could get my palm on the spool. Took a long time to undo.

 

[yoda1]

I feel for you, Green Butt!

I also agree that the start-up becomes jerky with both pawls engaged. Those who insist on using the reel with both pawls engaged have my sympathies.

After I spoke with Bill Archuletta and changed out the springs to the heavier ones, my problem was solved (I can now run the reel on a single pawl with little or no additional tension required from the adjuster). I would think he could replace the spool gear quite easily on your reel?

There must be a good story to go with that photo...:razz:

.

 

[shotgunner]

"There must be a good story to go with that photo... :razz:"

I'd almost rather hear the audio! Frustrating happenings just, well, happen. Thanks for the pic GB

 

[fish0n4evr]

Replacing the springs for stronger ones would be ideal. One other solution is to expand the existing springs so they apply more pressure on the pawls by prying on the upper arm of each spring. Care must be taken no to pry on the lower arm and opening the elbow too much that it slips off easily from the post

It is also recommended the tensioner to be backed off after the reel is done for the day to prevent "memory" setting in.

The lower pawl (on the reel posted as pictured) is flipped, presumably with the intent to orient both pawls in the same direction and to increase tension. These reels are converted simply by engaging one and disengaging the other. Flipping pawls can have the same adverse effects as engaging the wrong one: A revolving spool can rotate a pawl that is mounted incorrectly just enough that it will slip off the post. Especially when coupled with a weak spring keeping it in place.

What I'd do is to instal both pawls correctly as intended. Then I would remove the springs with wood-dowel and expand them. Check if that increases tension on the springs and back off every time the reel is not being fished.

 

[Green Butt]

Backing the adjuster off is a good idea and I always try to remember that. Since the springs are new in the pictured reel, I think a new spool or a fixing by Mr. A is in order.

shotgunner, there was an audio and it lasted quite awhile. :chuckle:

 

[yoda1]

Just a request Green Butt,

could you possibly post a photo of your spool with the gear worn enough that the reel no longer functions properly? I would like to see how badly worn the gear is and which side of the teeth took the beating? Others posting here have implied that this occurrence (gear wear) is impossible or highly unlikely due to the different hardness of the gear and pawl components.

Thanks, if you can oblige, understand if it's too much trouble.
Greg

 

[Green Butt]

yoda1,
good idea.

I'll get a shot up, but probably won't make it til tomorrow. I'd enjoy some other perspectives on this as well. Could be something else that's causing this.

 

[Green Butt]

The first is the spool that over ran. After the incident I put on new springs and pawls which did help some, but not enough. Playing around with it tonight this spool seems kinda herky-jerky going in or out-- probably due to the rounded off teeth. The 2nd spool (2 penciled in) is a spare and reels in and out smooth, but still seems too weak on the drag. I have not looked at these spools so close til tonite. I should add this particular reel is an SA 10. I have been assured by several sources they are the same as the Marquis No1. I see now these 2 gears have slightly different machine marks. I've had a few No2's in the past that all seemed to have adequate drag. I only use this reel on a specific winter rod, but have had it many years and I remember it as having adequate resistance when I got it. I don't know which spool came with it and which I picked up later.

 

[808steelheader]

I own the same reel: the SA 10/Marquis Salmon 1. Using one pawl did seem too weak to prevent overrun so I have been using both pawls for the past 3 years with no problems.

Todd

 

[RobP]

I wonder if worn or tired springs could lead to this kind of wear. I have a Hardy St. Andrew ( my favorite reel) that I ordered new springs for and wow what a difference. It actually has a good drag now. Rob

 

[FKrow]

Why would a spool gear wear?
1. Abrasive grit in the grease between pawl and gear.
2. No lubrication
3. Poor material for the spool gear - out of spec. and too soft.

Spool over runs could more likely be caused by weak springs for the pawls. The angle of engagement between the spring and curved top of the pawl also influences the drag resistance.

Some pawls have rounded points and others have sharper points for more resistance/engagement.

Lots of variables in the simple spring/pawl design.

In my collection of about 10 Scientific Anglers 9, 10 & 11 reels as well as eight of the new Marquis Salmon 1,2 3,,,, there is noticeable variation from reel to reel within the same size. I believe it is mainly the spring pawl angle and spring pressure.

Regards,
FK