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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Been looking into these lines and read a lot of the previous threads discussing them. Those who use them, are you cutting them to match your scandi preference for your rod or deciding on length more by trial and error? Also, is there any major benefit, other than personal preference, to using them with a mono vs non-mono running line?
Thanks
 

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I use a formula Bob Meiser provided me for scandi heads: This is from my crappy memory but you get the idea-
2.5X rod length for 12'6"
2.6X 13'
2.75 14'
3.0X 15'

for PT heads, I use the calculator to plug in length and desired grains, and fiddle with it till it arrives at the particular weight head to buy. Now that they have "ready to go" heads the process is simpler, and in some cases a cut isn't necessary. http://www.guideline.no/POWER+TAPER+CALCULATOR.9UFRvIXD.ips


Been having some memory issues lately but I think those ratios are right.

A hint with full sinks, you might want to go a couplethree feet shorter than you would for a floater, makes it easier to screw the head out on your lift.

For shooting line, I like coated lines for cold weather and mono for warm weather. I find coated lines easier to grip in winter and mono, better for shooting long in summer.
 

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I use 3D a lot. The best it to cut then a bit longer then you think is needed, make a loop using mono/nail knot, cast with a real fly on the real river and adjust further if needed.

A typical 9/10 weights in the back ca. 17-18 gr/foot , 10/11 ca. 20 gr.

Often when the final cut is done and welded loop is attached, the ultimate fine-tuning will come after fishing with the head for few days in various conditions.
 

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What I did...

I set up my 3D system differently. I bought the heads at 540 grains and then I bought a rod to cast them. No cutting required. My running lines are also Guideline, the DC lines, one level and one tapered. I don't get to fish in warm water, so coated running lines are fine with me.
 

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I have mainly PT's and DDC heads . By the time the 3D heads came out I discovered Steve Godshall's SGS Skandit lines :smokin:

I use the same calculator as Mr. Spaz , works like a charm and after pinpointing my taste in Scandi heads , it works perfect the first time for me . I keep my ratios much the same as Mr. Spaz . I calculate the head length and use that as the constant . The results come up in the tool table and I select based on grain window of the rod .... easy-peasy :smokin:


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys, I'm trying to fit it to a rod and am in between grain windows in the good-to-go lines so will need to cut. I'm going to find out what scandi the rod likes and go from there. I have a pretty good idea of where it should be so it will just be minor tweaking.

Sazan with your 3D's, do you find that the higher the sink rate of the head ie FLOAT/SINK2/SINK4 vs INTERMEDIATE/SINK2/SINK4 for example you shorten up on the length or are you keeping the same grain weight for the given rod?

Thanks,
Mike
 

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Mike,

The fastest rate I use is I/S2/S4 but not to often. Most of the time it is F/H/I, F/I/S2 and H/I/S3.

Since head like I/S2/S4 have less air resistance on backcast then others ( specially F/H/I), and consequently exerts a bit more load at the same total weight, I tend to have it 10-15 gr lighter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the offer to test Whiteman but that's a lot heavier than what I'm looking to handle. I'll be somewhere down around the 450 grain range. Thanks again for all the info Sazan, I'm thinking this is gonna work out pretty well!

Mike
 

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You will be chopping...

I think the lightest DH heads in Guideline 3D are the 8/9 series at 540 grains, so you would be looking at a 90 grain reduction, somewhere in the 5 - 6 foot area of reduction. I scanned the Guideline catalogue and the next step down from the DH 8/9 series is a SH series at 24 grams, 400+ grains. Maybe you need a different rod! I use the F/H/I and the F/I/S2 most, with the F/S2/S4 coming in third. The rivers I fish here on Southern Vancouver Island are the spate type, freestone bottoms, lots of broken water, short deep slots and pockets, not much in the way of long broad runs like the rivers up north in B.C. So when I got the heads, I was more interested in using their full capability than fitting them to an existing rod. My 3Ds came from Ireland at £80.00 each, ouch, so buying a rod to fit the heads was the most logical step, rather than cutting the heads to suit one of my rods. I got a used European – made rod perfect for the heads for $350.00. What a great combination!
 

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Here is a chart of the forthcoming Scientific Anglers (manufacturer of the guideline heads) Ultimate Scandi Taper heads. You will see a 460 in there. I think they'll be available soon.
 

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Here is a chart of the forthcoming Scientific Anglers (manufacturer of the guideline heads) Ultimate Scandi Taper heads. You will see a 460 in there. I think they'll be available soon.
SA has not made Guideline lines since they began making the 3D heads, Airflo makes them and most of their other lines now I believe...

I have been fishing these SA UST heads since last Fall and they are epic. Compact versions are in the works as well...

The texturing does make quite a difference in pulling these heads from the water as well, sounds gimmicky I agree, but try them side by side and see for yourself...
 

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Guideline 3D

I cut mine to suit my rods in the same way as Sazan, a little long at the beginning and then fine tune them after some fishing experience. I also cut them for different fishing situations; if there is lots of space where I am fishing I tend to cut them longer than when I am fishing the same rod in tight places. Often a little lighter and a little shorter. The short head tend to load your rod better than a longer weighing the same. It takes some experience, so if you haven’t tried it before, I would advise you to seek guidance from a more experienced 3D user, or as mentioned use the cutting calculator on the Guideline webpage.

I’ve just spend a month fishing for Steelheads in the northern BC and my standard line was the FHI and the FIS2, fine tuned with different lengths of Fluocarbon and sinking polyleaders and only rarely the 3D FS2S4. What most tend to forget or neglect is the fact that the two lightest lines mentioned actually lend themselves beautifully to be cast with both the Underhand technique and the Skagit technique.

A new favorite line of mine that really came through in certain fishing situations on this last trip was the new RIO Scandi Shooting Head (Scandinavian series) 23’ # 8 400 grain and 23’ # 8/9 425 grain with the Guideline 15’ density compensated tips in all densities from sink 1/2 to 7/8. On my 13’ NRX # 8/9 and my 13’ Hardy Angel 2 13’ # 8, they worked extremely well no matter if I used Underhand or Skagit technique (Perry Poke/Byske cast). Let me know if you need help.

Johncke ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Johncke, thanks for the advice. I will definitely use the guideline calculator to get in the range I want, and like has been advised cut a bit longer and go from there. Gonna have to work on my underhand technique I think to make life easier on myself with these lines.

Those SA lines look interesting as well. And the plus being that unlike the Guideline stuff it will actually be easy to get them and trial them here in NA.
 

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A new favorite line of mine that really came through in certain fishing situations on this last trip was the new RIO Scandi Shooting Head (Scandinavian series) 23’ # 8 400 grain and 23’ # 8/9 425 grain with the Guideline 15’ density compensated tips in all densities from sink 1/2 to 7/8. On my 13’ NRX # 8/9 and my 13’ Hardy Angel 2 13’ # 8, they worked extremely well no matter if I used Underhand or Skagit technique (Perry Poke/Byske cast). Let me know if you need help.


Well said. !!!

Newer Scandi heads ( 23') have non-steatch core. At least for me, in windy conditions, Intermediate head with slower sinking tip, works better then floater with faster sinking tip.

Nice thing about the Rio heads is, that depending on the head's weight, it will act on a given rod as a near pure scandi head or hybrid ( scandi/skagit) head.
 
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