[dansteelieman]

I live in the Great Lakes region, and our rivers tend to be smaller(only 40-90' wide usually) with deeper runs, pools, and chutes, usually combined with timber and other structure. It is very hard to get down deep quickly, even with the heaviest sinking heads. Spey casting is not practiced that often and only a select few actually use spey rods. Furthermore, most who do use them are using them incorrectly. Here it is popular to use a spey rod to present nymphs with a floating flyline and an indicator, with a minimal amount of splitshot. Most anglers resort to only roll casting, not utalizing single, double, snap T, or reverse roll casts that would allow an extension of the drift and better presentation. Double Taper flylines are popular, and some WF designs as well. Rarely will you see an angler with a "true" spey line.

Ok, here is my question. I am looking for a line that I can use on our rivers to swing speys and nymphs, that will allow me to make casts effectivly. A longer line such as Rio's Accelerator would not be adequete since it has a long head, and with the tight banks, it would be hard to lay out a cast. I am a fan of the Rio flylines, and have used the Salmon/Steelhead flyline on my spey rod before, but it tends not to turnover as well with a longer rod. I was wondering if the Windcutter line might be a better choice?

I also considered taking a long DT spey line(120') and cutting it so you have two pieces. I then could buy splice a section of floating line from a WF and the make a loop for adding tips. This way I might get that "power hinge" that is found in the accelerator, but the head would be shorter for power and belly would be longer for easy mending. Any ideas?

 

[pmflyfisher]

I cqnnot wait for the answer to this question because I am looking to solve the same problem.

BTW, on Friday I gave the Airflo ten foot fast sinking leader a good work out on the Joe. It casted well but it did not sink fast enough to get the flies down close to the bottom. I was in the runs below the dam where the water flows quite fast. This water is no more than 5-7 feet deep since the river is very low now.

It was on the front of an 8-9 weight SA WF sink tip line. Casted well which I liked but did not get deep enough as my deep water express heads do. But those heads are a beast to cast.

Think that 10 foot fast sink air flow would be all right for moderate to slow 3-5 foot run/pool but not for really getting deep in fast flow, deep chute, or deep pool, etc...

Hal

 

[West Mich]

I use Windcutters for nearly all my spey fishing here. They work well with sink tips. On big rivers like the Muskegon or Manistee this is a good setup. Fish how you want but I'd forget the big rod on our small rivers unless you're the type to bobber fish with indicators. I use a conventional sinktip line and singlehander combo on rivers like the PM where you can nearly touch the other bank with a spey rod. Keeps me out of the trees and no thick line to drag. Happy casting.

 

[pmflyfisher]

I have been reading these comments on spey lines since last December when I found the old spey board before it was transferred here.

It appears that if one had a Doctorate degree in spey lines that may not be enough to ensure you purchase the CORRECT spey line to balance with your rod. Seems way to complicated.

Mo is a better November river in my opinion. With this low water and hot weather all that will be there are the kings, not much steel. Have not seen any glowing reports from the Mo yet. PM and Big M though are hot.

BTW. In the 22 years I have been in the upper midwest I cannot remember another summer and fall like this one to date. I am now predicting poor runs based on what we have to date. Hope I am wrong..

 

[ChromeFever]

Spey Lines

I am firm believer that there is no way to get one rod and line configuration that will cover all situations with the multitude of different techniques you are talking about. I have finally come to the point where I had to purchase two different spey rods and set them up differently. And I am not sure that this will cover every situation. I have a Sage 9140 with a windcutter on it. I have recently just ordered the windcutter upgrade for this to cover certain situations. I also have some custome made tips (home made) to cover certain situations. I also have a loop 11' one hand spey for small to medium sized rivers where standard one handers are not practical. I am now at a point where I am considering another rod like the 7136 to kind of fill in the holes where the loop doesnt quite cut it but the 9140 is overkill. So I am looking at 3 rods to cover the different waters I fish on a regular basis. And I dont do any indicator nymphing or anything like that. Strictly traditional techniques such as grease lining, floating line with dry flies, riffling hitch systems, sink tips, etc.... Good luck in your quest and if you find one system that covers it all. I dont want to know about it because my wife will kill me!!!!!! :chuckle:

 

[dansteelieman]

lines....

I know Rio has the line selector, but sometimes that doesn't help. I am inquiring about using a long DT with the first 15' feet cut off so I can cast indicators with it. I know the Midspey and Accelerator are too large....

Maybe a salmon/steelhead line with a few floating tips?

 

[pmflyfisher]

Thanks for the comments, no wonder there are few spey fisherman around with the complexities that must be understood and mastered in addition to all of the normal fly fishing subjects.

Will look at the Rio tables.

My wife will not understand the need for more fly rods when she sees 10 single handers and one spey sitting in my closet.

1988, well I cannot remember if that one was that bad. I think it was 1988 or 89 when we got the floods in September due to the heavy rains though. Washed out some trips that fall as I recall up in Michigan.

 

[Carl]

the Mo', lines, etc.

PM: Most of the Mo' is too low, too clear, and too warm. The kings are stacked where its deep and cold. I do think more will spawn lower than might normally, but the key to the staging fish is above. Cast me an email at [email protected] if you want to talk more. BTW, I respectfully disagree about the lack of value of a spey rod on the PM. They give a nice advantage in line management when fishing sink tips on floating lines (IMO).

Dan: The key to depth is slack line management much more than line design. You can fish all of the important Mo' water with 5, 10, 15, and 24' tips/heads. Any modern spey line from Rio, Airflo, SA, Cortland, Orvis, etc. will do what you want. DTs are just fine. Remember that line management is the king, not distance cast. In Michigan waters, the spey rod advantage in line management is more important than any other.

Good luck this fall.
Carl

 

[pmflyfisher]

Carl,

I agree that a spey on the PM is a distinct advantage as I found out this spring. Its definitely advantage for fly control, mending, and and depth, etc... I just have to figure out how to land them on that long of a rod, went 0 for 12. Great fights and memories though.

Maybe this cool front and rain that just came into the area will help. November could be a great month for both salmon and steelhead this year.

Hal

 

[dansteelieman]

I agree....

I get what you are saying, but one problem on smaller rivers such as the PM and Little Manistee is the little room to cast sink tips, and getting deep right off the get go. I know I can get down deep quickly by using my ladder rig. Anyways, I usually indicator nymph and that is why I am wondering about the Windcutter line. I could use it for indicator, and then attach mini heads if needed for sink tip fishing on larger rivers.

Thanks for all your input, there is alot to consider.

 

[snoryder]

OK, I'm still confused after reading all these post, what is a good all purpose spey line that will do both. indicater and swing fishing.

I've looked at the recommendations from RIO, these lines are expensive! I think 200 bucks CA. my wife would slap me silly if I spent that on fishing line. Any lines for half that price with interchangeable tips?

 

[ChromeFever]

Rods and Lines

I dont believe that there is such an animal. I am not an expert on the indicator fishing with a spey rod but I do a lot of it with a one hander for inland trout and bass fishing. The closest thing that you will come to covering it all would probably be a 12.5 to 13.5' rod with a windcutter multi tip line on it. Something in an 8 or 9 wt. Personally I think you are still going to be better off with two rods and two lines. One set up for more traditional techniques and one set up for indicator fishing and no I do not own a fly shop or work at one. Good Luck and Tight Lines

 

[pmflyfisher]

Probably right that the PM is not a good spey river but it is the one I know in detail and of course my favorite steelhead river. Then Little M, Mo, White, Joe, and last the Big M. Big M is last only because I have fished it the least over the years, but I know it is very good.

Mo, Joe, Big M are probably the best for speying out here and perhaps sections of the Grand if you know where to go (I don't).

Wisconsin also has a few.

I think one of the multi tip lines with some home made sink tips are the way to go on the smaller rivers I tend to fish.

Not sure about the proper spey surf set up though, in early research stage of that venue.