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chrome-magnon man
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Discussion Starter #1
why does this have to be so difficult? here are the Forum guidelines:

"Rule #1 - This is a "friends and family" program

This forum is provided free of cost to all visitors participating in the enjoyment and promotion of flyfishing, which we feel is an important influence in keeping people tuned into natural resources, promoting friendships, and passing on these things to the generations to come. We expect that people uphold this by conducting discussions in a manner that would be suitable for sharing with their own families.


Rule #2 - Respecting sponsorships, and spam

Since our life blood is sponsorships, we must keep advertisement meaningful in our community. Avoid spamming by openly promoting non-sponsors in a way that directly advertises their businesses unless you have consulted with a moderator or administrator first. If you want to promote non-sponsors in this manner, you will be asked to email the business to suggest sponsorship of our community (CC: [email protected]).


Thanks!"

this is all very simple and designed to allow us to stay alive so that you all can enjoy what we all have created here. I'm not about to get into discussions about the rules, or to re-hash old wars. Maybe I am evil for deleting the direct links in John Gray's post (but I left the web addresses in so that people could explore these sites if they were interested), but I tire of these discussions. All we ask is quoted above. It is simple, fair, and designed to help us keep the site going. However, a few times each year it seems one of us needs to come on and defend our stance with regards to our sponsors. Strange. John, I sent you a private message out of respect and quietly edited your post--you chose to make this a public issue. Bad form. Speygod, your accusations about people being treated unjustly are simply wrong.

Or perhaps you are both correct--Juro, Sean, myself and our tireless moderators are really up to no good. Let's see..what could we gain from this...we make millions here at the Forum and we share this with our moderators. Willie Gunn has personally received $50,000 USD in the past month helping us protect our sponsors. Sean is a multi-millionaire thanks to the Forum, and me, well, let's just say that I don't have any worries anymore!

HAH!

If you believe any of that I have some land in Florida I'd like to show you at low tide.

C'mon guys, get real here please. We are angling enthusiasts just like you are, we created and maintain this site at great personal expense so that we all have a cool place to hang out and talk fishing. If I came to your house and I wanted to wear my shoes in your living room, I'd at least ask you before I stepped inside--maybe that's just 'cause I'm a Canadian but I think everyone would do the same. The Forum is a house we built and share freely with everyone who wants to enter. All we ask is that you help us to help you--take out an ad, or encourage someone else to do so. That way we stay alive and keep the fun alive.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go and sharpen my pitchfork...

:devil: :(
 

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Dana said:

..... John, I sent you a private message out of respect and quietly edited your post--you chose to make this a public issue. Bad form.....


Dana,

I felt that I had explained my position in the thread shown below

Spey Clave > Technique > Getting good hookups on the swung fly

and, not wishing to outstay my welcome on this forum, I had no intention of prolonging this discussion in public. You and I subsequently exchanged views privately and I had hoped that this had brought the matter to an amicable conclusion. However, given that you have chosen to publicly criticise my conduct in this thread, perhaps you will allow me to respond by quoting, in full, the private message which I sent to you dated 25th August, which was as follows:

Quote

Hi Dana,
I see no need for your concern. We simply have different views on the operation of public message boards. As you said yourself, it is not a personal matter, and I bear no ill will towards you or anyone else connected with your site. In fact, as fishermen, we have much in common and it was this commonality which attracted me to your forum in the first place. I would disagree that my approach is in any way extreme. I might say, with equal justification, that your action in editing my post was extreme but that wouldn't get us anywhere. I thought I had explained my position clearly in my forum posts and I am sorry you feel there is any nastiness to put to rest. I certainly, at no point, intended, or felt, any nastiness and I did not take any personal offence from your actions. My position is one of principle and not of personal animosity.
I am at fault in posting hastily to a board whose rules I was unfamiliar with. I did so in an effort to make a contribution to the discussion of a topic of which I have some experience and wished to pass on useful information, including links to web sites which added to the information. Whether or not the websites have a commercial component, to me, is completely irrelevant, provided they give information which is pertinent to the discussion, independently and unrelated to any commercial aspect of the site.
On your first point that my site is commercial. Yes, it is partially commercial, in that around half the pages are devoted to the sale of my products. The other pages are, however, non commercial, having been included in the site, not for commercial gain, but for the information and interest of visitors to my site. You seem unable to separate these two functions. The page I referred to:
www.graysofkilsyth.com/theflybox.htm is a non commercial page, though it has links to commercial pages on my site. I think you will find that many of the image links on your forum lead to pages on sites with commercial content.

Secondly, you are incorrect in your assumption that the images I included in my post are part of my website. They are not. They were added to my server in order that I might post them, for information purposes only, on forums such as yours. The images have not been published to my website and have no commercial content.

The point is that the pages to which I provided links, and (other than the page on my own site) to which I have no commercial links other than the fact I have ordered materials from these sites and would recommend the quality of their service, added to the content of my post and the removal of these links diluted the content of the post. The post was censored without my permission. You may think it extreme but I believe, as an important point of principle, that the messages on public notice boards should be free of censorship and commercial interference.
Given the unacceptability of the censorship, I was left with no option but to withdraw my post and felt a responsibility, to the forum members, to justify my action in full. As part of this explanation, I felt I should include your private message, which, after all, is simply a statement of your policy and I had no reason to suppose that you would wish its content to be kept secret. On a related point, I felt that the post of your moderator, instructing me to edit my post, was unnecessarily impolite.

On a final note, perhaps your last paragraph sums the matter up. I was at fault in posting to a forum of whose policy I was not aware and, as I discovered all too late, I find unacceptable. I should not have posted a message on the forum. I, therefore, apologise for any inconvenience or embarrassment which may have resulted from it. I bear you no ill will and have taken no offence from your actions. I wish you well with your fishing and your forum. I fear, though, that, as long as you remain dependent on commercial sponsorship, I will not be posting any more messages on it.

Regards,

John Gray
www.graysofkilsyth.com

end quote

The above private message was sent to you, Dana, in response to your second private message to me. I leave it to you to decide whether or not you wish to publish the content of that message.

I hope this helps to explain my position to forum members and regret that I will not have the pleasure of exchanging ideas and opinion with you all on this forum. May I extend my good wishes to you all.

Tight lines,

John Gray


P.S. The purpose of the edit was to remove the active links which I had, inadvertently, included in this post. Please note that I have also removed the active link in my signature and I have deactivated all hyperlinks included in my previous posts, in compliance with forum rules.
 

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Pullin' Thread
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John,

Get over it and quit trying to justify your actions, it is bad form and ill-mannered. If you leave, so be it; if you stay, please no more justifying what you did and no more veiled attacks on Dana.
 

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flytyer said:
John,

Get over it and quit trying to justify your actions, it is bad form and ill-mannered. If you leave, so be it; if you stay, please no more justifying what you did and no more veiled attacks on Dana.

Flytyer,

I did not initiate this thread and, had the opening post not included a public criticism of my conduct, would not have responded to it. At no time have I intended any attack, veiled or otherwise, on Dana. I would dispute your apparent belief that your authority as a moderator extends either to the denial of my right of reply or to the proscription of the contents of any further messages which I might post on this board.

As for manners......
 

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Keep up the good work!!

I just want to say that I have never !!! seen a Forum as interesting and well run and free of crap as this forum. I really hope it will survive and stay this way, but one can doubt when you look at how other forums on fly fishing has evolved (or degenerated).

I guess to keep it this way is all up to us users and our will to support the fantastic job of the moderators. If you don't like it or its rules, there are other forums around.
 

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Dana...

:D :D :D :D Keep the faith!
I'm sure 99.99999999999999999% of the rest of the Board would agree.
fae/jee/Sheba/Saki and, out of turn but a good assumption, the other 99.9999999999999999999% of the Board.

You fellows run a 'clean shop,' that's were the 99.99, etc., want to be.
fae
 

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Correction is Difficult

But necessary.

Thanks Dana for the work you do for no financial gain. In many ways we take advantage of your hard work and do not express appreciation.

Correction of children, students and others that do not want to comply with reasonable rules, is difficult , but necessary. I want the site up and running well. It is a big help in getting information that I need to quickly get new lines for a rod, deal with casting problems, and so much more.

Once again, Dana, thanks for all you do.
 
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