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Discussion Starter #1
Lots of previous 'talk' about florocarbon leaders (pro and con), but zip that I remember about the actual line material.

Most of us appear to use Maxima main line for our base leader material, then perhaps, a tippet of regular leader or florocarb. Which is darned expensive stuff:eyecrazy:

Putting through a Cabela's catalog at lunch and noticed you can buy a 150-200 yard spool of flocb. line for about the same price as just a short spool of tippet material.

Anyone actually made up leaders using the line?
fae
 
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Oh how I tried...

Those bloody blood knots on the lighter tippets are sheer torture and after several frustrating hours I gave up. Mind you, I have tied up several grass leaders for the spey casting - with 30# Maxima. But the blood knot on the small stuff is completely beyond me. I only use the FC as tippet material on my regular tapered leaders using the Surgeon's knot.:eek:

mmm
a knot challenged ffisher
 

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Ed Ward

At the Sandy Clave, Ed said that he used Cabela's flurocarbon spinning line for tippets rather than purchasing the higher priced fly-fishing version.

I would be inclined to use it for tippets only and Maxima for the remainder of the leader.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
As I've not seen flo line at retail here, is

it 'stiffer' than the leader materials?
fae
 

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Berkley (spell?) has been selling "Vanish" for 3
yrs or so for a semi-reasonable price.

I've backed off from using fl line: it takes a heck
of a long time to degrade. It's not worth it for
the one or few additional fish I might catch here
and there.
 

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Softer

Fred,
Cabela's claims that their flurocarbon spinning line is softer than the variety used for tippets.
 
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As with any line, care should be taken to dispose of it responsibly. With that said, I find I like FC for subsurface tippet material. Because it is nearly invisible I use a slightly heavier test tippet which allows me to horse the fish in sooner, which I believe is less taxing to the fish - overall. It's pretty tough stuff, as well. Also aids in a quicker breaching of the surface film so the fly gets down sooner.

Or has those marketing the line got me snowed on some of this?

mmm
 

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JD
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Flourocarbon

I've been ussing FC for tippet material for years. Used to get the stuff that Rajeff Sports was handeling because it was cheaper and you got more on a (tippet) spool. Several of my friends used to buy FC spinning line and use that. It works. It may be softer, but isn't that usually considered a plus? Never had a problem with blood knots although a lot of people I've talked to sweare by the triple surgon's knot. One thing I can say for sure. As a dry fly leader, it sucks. Since it has a spesific gravity slightly heavier than water, it will pull a dry fly under.

JD
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yo Jimmie! You up for chasing Kings on Sunday?

Give me a call; if no call by tomorrow I'll assume you haven't seen this post.
fae
 

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Fred,
I use FC almost excusively, mainly because I can get away with using a lot heavier leader strengths than with regular mono. For example, the lowest I will usually go is 8.5lb or 8.8 lb depending on what brand I am using, Dai-Riki or Frog Hair, respectively. This breakind strength is I believe 4X and has a listed diameter of .009 thousandths of an inch. In a very thick line like Maxima, this is probably the equivalent diameter of their listed 4lb, althought the Maxima 4lb most likely tests out much higher then 4lb breaking strength.
I usually fish heavier around 11 - 13 lbs depending on the brand I am fishing, but the above gives you an idea of the diameter to strength ratio of FC and then you also have the lower refractive properties associated with FC.
I can't say for sure, but if you are fishing aggressive, lightly pressured fish I really doubt that FC will make a huge difference, especially if you are swinging. Dead drifting or nymphing could be a different ballgame though.
I don't think that fluorocarbon is as stiff as mono for the same breaking strength, but by bumping up the size of FC you are using should add the stiffness you desire.
Two more things to think about are that the tippet spools of fluorocarbon are of a better quality than the larger reel spools that you can buy. There is a huge difference in the percentage of fluorocarbon that is in the different lines, with the tippet spools being closer to 100% than the reel spools. My personal experience with Berkley Vanish is that it is the worst line I have ever tried. It is extremely wirey and once it touches anything remotely rough (ie the bottom) it begins to peel like those cheese strings. For an idea of the quality of the line, Berkley sells both its 50yd tippet spools and its 250 yd reel spools for the exact same price!
Hope this helps and if you have any other questions I can try to help,

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Pete/MikeB, et. al. Leader with main line sound like a good test

bed for the Rogue. Bulk of our fishing is 'nymphing on the swing' and getting deep and staying there is the key to hook ups or no.

So $64 question is what FC line would you recommend. Price really isn't an object. "In for a penny, in for a Pound."

(Always loved that English saying: Never buy anything, but just exactly what you think you want. As someone (Gardner?) noted in another thread, buy 2nd best and you'll end up going back and getting what you really wanted ... but now you're in twice the price.)
:smokin:
 

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Bought big spool of flo. a few years back, with the same thought.
(At this rate, I thought, I'll save enough to pay for that $600 rod I just bought. ) Quickly broke off two steelhead. Never again, said I, and don't use anything lighter than 15 lb., and no flo, no way. Still water trout, sure, but not steelhead, in my opinion, since I can't see that they care much what the fly's attached to. Anyone have reason to believe it does? I'm tempted to tie the fly directly to my line.

As for knots, can anyone tie a bloodknot that's stronger than a triple surgeon? I got into a little knot testing last year, and the triple surgeon always won. Maybe flo. is different.
 

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A few years ago I got a leader kit of Orvis Mirage Flurocarbon at a closeout price. I used it to build various leaders. I found that diameters above about .016" retain permanent coils, and so aren't suitable for butt diameters. Recently, the premium brands, such as Seaguar Grand Max, Rio Fluroflex Plus, and Umpqua Super Fluro seem to have passed the best nylon tippets for strength/diameter ratio. I use Grand Max lX for steelhead tippets and 4X for trout nymphing tippets. (25 or 30 meterspools are around $13-$14.) It seems to knot and handle well enough.
After several years' use, I have no idea whether it gets me more strikes than nylon would have. But for the price, why not try to have the best leaders that can be devised?
 

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Berkely Vanish Fluoro is IMO, the absolute worst product ever foisted upon the fishing public. It is simply impossible to get any kind of knot-strength consistency out of it. Try it and you will see what I mean.

All flouro knots poorly, but this Vanish stuff is in a league by itself.
 

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Fred,
If you are using FC for your tippets only, then I would recommend highly Dai-Riki fluorocarbon or Frog Hair fluorocarbon. I fish with both of these a lot and love them. I also have a spool or two of Rio Fluoroflex Plus, but have not used it enough to fairly comment, but have heard good things about it. Pound for pound and knick for knick though, I think Frog Hair FC is the best line to run.
As far as Berkely Vanish is concerned, or any other spinning reel sized spool of FC for that matter, I would sooner use a regular mono that I am confident rather than lower the quality of my leader. In my opinion Vanish is inferior to most of the high quality regular monos out there.
As for price, here in Ontario Frog Hair costs $16-$19 per 30m spool and Dai Riki is abour $15 per spool. You can also buy Frog Hair in 100m spools with price around $40.
E-mail or PM a message if you need the name of a shop that carries these products at the lower end of the price range, and in Canadian dollars no less.
Hope this helps,

Mike
[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just another example of why I love this Board.

Amazing where a 'simple' question will lead.
:smokin:

fae
 

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Peter,
I see where you are going with the comparison and looking at it that way I understand the application for the Vanish. I still wouldn't use it, but thats me, if it works for you, than don't change. If there is one thing that fishing has taught me, its that there is no "have to" in fishing. I would never build an entire leader out of fluorocarbon myself, and have not had any significant problems with coiling, but that is probably because I am using sink tips most of the time when water and air tems get that cold.

Mike
 

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kiiler flouro

: Some NEW stuff out there that I tried this yr, & I have fished about all the flouro.... Airflo sightfree!!!!!!!!!!!!! This stuff is AWESOME!!! & fairlly cheap too!!!!!! Blows away RIO & GRANDMAX in my opinion---& more yrds for the buck too:smokin: Glad that someone is figuring out how to make this stuff worthwhile...
 

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As I said, I've pretty much stopped using fluro because
I don't believe that I should deposit garbage that doesn't
degrade in the waters that I fish. But a friend who spin
fishes uses Vanish leaders for Chinook and large lake
trout and hasn't run into quality problems, so I suspect
these are somewhat exaggerated. He doesn't use
anything less than 12 lb test, however.
 
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