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Spey in the South?!
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys-

I am loving my CND. I can't wait for the rivers to go down enough for me to get into them. (Our banks are overgrown in East Tennessee and I have negative 20 feet of backcast room.) Even so I am able to fish a little where before I could not.

What is the difference between European and Traditional casting? I know Euro is a stiffer and faster blank, but I can't gor the life of me find anything on the differences on the internet, other than that they exist.

You know, newbie spey pages are scarce around the web, and there doesn't appear to be a book anywhere. I have looked through the Spey pages about 6 times and they are very helpful, particularly the movies, but on a couple of them the lack of depth perception makes it look like the line has quantum leaped through Dec Hogan's body and that is just weirding me out. :confused:

Is there anywhere on the web with diagrams that isn't in Japanese? No offense to the Japanese, I just don't happen to speak the language...

Thanks,
Zach
 

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"Sing"
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51 Posts
book? video?

There is Mike Maxwell's "The Art and Science of Speyfishing". I owned the book and read it when I first started to spey cast. I wish I hadn't!

A lot of folks like Hugh Falkus' book which I have not read. Don't know where to find it.

If you haven't seen Rio's "International Spey Casting" video, you should get it.
 

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Spey in the South?!
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Discussion Starter #3
Why on Maxwell?

Hey pupafoo. Thanks, man. Why didn't you like the Maxwell book?

Zach
 

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The difference between a traditional and a european in terms of rods is very subjective. Here is the simple truth all two handed rods no matter how stiff ( european) will spey cast just fine in any manner you choose. any soft rod will overhead cast just fine as well as throw any type of shooting line.. What i am saying is that the difference is the action of the rod but as in single handed rods action means next to nothing in terms of how a rod performs any given task. It's vastly more about the skill of the caster and how he has leanred to take advantage of the various types of actions.. One is not better than another or even more attuned to any style of casting just different.... IN my opinion...
 

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Zach,

Like Roballen says, both types of rods will work equally well. As for the difference in the styles the "traditional" style seems to be best associated with long belly lines and the "Euro" style is associated with much shorter heads. The Euro style is probably better known in the NorthWest as the "Skagit Style".
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Meaning neither to confuse or contradict the above, I have always believed that traditional action provides a more fully loading, smoother casting action optimal for traditional spey lines and easy casting whereas Euro action rods are faster, stiffer, and designed for underhand spey casting with shooting heads and overhand casting with two hands.

Yet either will do both, often very well, hence it's all very confusing and probably originated in marketing hype :p

Nonetheless, I find that so-called "traditional" action rods allow the caster to push the force of the stroke deeper into the blank, increasing the recoil into the cast itself and improving the control of the line, leader and thus fly. If the material is not responsive, that transfer of the energy in the rod into the line feels sluggish but if the carbon fibers want to recover quickly and the cast is well formed the traditional action rod feels very smooth and powerful as the line jumps from the rod surprisingly fast and far. The various casts from both sides of the body are relaxed and comfortable, provided the rod has the modern materials to put this deeper loading action to good use in the form of a tight loop.

So-called "Euro" action rods are often lighter in the tip and heavier in the butt, and stiffer in the middle for that matter. I find them to be more work for spey casting and great for overhand casting. Yet some find them much easier to spey cast than traditional action rods. Again, in the hands of the beholder.

I believe heavier lines load the stiffer rods better. Casters who prefer to push their grains actively through the spey motions with a lot of momentum verses letting the rod do more of the work will probably like stiffer rods, just like with single-handers. There are advantages to all.

Personally I prefer to let the rod do as much of the work as it's willing to do on my behalf. When you combine a sweet loading traditional action with the most modern materials you get an all-day casting tool that is a pleasure to fish and lacks nothing in the way of power.

.02
 

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"Sing"
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51 Posts
why not Maxwell?

Zach,

The reason I wish I hadn't read Maxwell's book, or watched his video, when I fisrt started picking up the spey rod, is that it took me a lot of effort later to get rid of the "body rock" style I learned from Maxwell.

I may not be a good spey caster, but today, I'd like to think of spey casting as similar to single handed casting. The dynamics are similar, so should the methodology of the execution.

-Sing
 

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Zach,

Further to pupafoo's comments on Maxwell, I think that every "master" has something valuable to teach us. I don't subscribe to Mike's method of casting, but I certainly learned some things from his book (which I consider one of my valuable possesions). Mike is clearly one of the pioneers of the Speyfishing renaissance in North America, even though casting styles may have passed him by, his thoughts can still be very helpful to any student of casting.
 

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"Sing"
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collectible

Kush's comment is why I still keeping Maxwell's
book in my collection.

Oh, there is something I really like about the book:
Maxwell's attempt to explain casting with applied
mathematics. It's not rocket science. But being a
nerd myself, I enjoyed seeing equations in a
fishing book.

-S
 

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Zach,

I have recently ( the last year) changed over from traditional action rod Spey casting which I used for very many years to Euro or fast action rod Spey casting. This decision was based entirely on achieving greater distance with much greater ease for the same rod length and line weight.
The change was made from the experience of meeting a caster using fast action rods who regularly fishes in Norway.
 

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Maxwell's attempt to explain casting with applied

Sing, if you want 'applied Phy.' you need to hear/attend the next Charity clinic. Dr. Way Yin's hand outs really cover why this has a direct application.

Kush, et. al., above have covered the ground well, but (IMHO) I'll add .o2 cents. Where you really see the difference between the rod designs is in line choice. The 'traditiionals' will use a lighter line than the 'Euro's' to load the rod.

Example: if the 'traditional' is rated as a 9 wt rod, frequently you'll find a 7-8 long belley line will be more than enough to load the rod (more line out, more grains in the air). A 'Euro' will be (oxymoron here given spey line ratings here) will be more 'correct' to the box number.

Perhaps a bad example here, but the RIO Grandspey lines on a 'traditional' rod were total over-kill. With a 'Euro design' they could be cannons.

When we 'tested' (bless you Simon for sending them around .. back to that in a moment) them on 10 different rods, with trad. rods they were a complete 'dud,' as in over kill. With Euro rods that need more grains to properly load them, they are a great line to consider.

Joan says to cut this off and serve her dinner. More ? later.
fae
 
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Fred,

Have you picked dates for the 2004 Charity Clinic? I'd like to do it this year, but two weeks of March are already tied up. I think I remember you posting a month or so ago that you thought it would be in March some time. Be sure to let us know exactly when it'll be once you decide.
 
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