[FishHawk]

Has anyone tried or owned a Sage euro two hand 12.6 8wt rod? Or the T&T 12x12? I am looking at these two
rods for the salt. I have seen the T&T and like it but being a Sage guy I think that I could get away with
using 10wt lines on the Sage euro 8wt as most Sage rods will handle one or two line weights above what they are
rated. FishHawk:smokin:

 

[Per Stadigh]

Ï am currently fishing a lot with the T&T 12/12. Last summer i brought it to Russia and tried some 12 weight heads on it, but never got much action. I was rather pessimistic about the design then.
Now when it all is about 550-850 grain heads around this part of the world, the rod has been given a new chance. It is an absolut champion when handling these really heavy lines!!! I have even done full overhead cast with the 700 grainer - reaching vast distances. Most of my 16 footers would have blown up under that punishment...
In short, I find the rod under rated. It is more like a 13 or even 14 weight. When loaded correctly it handles a single spey with amazing ease - the deilvery is almost unreal.
I will use it in Russia in early June in those pools that need deep digging. If I had the chance to go for chinooks it would be the obvious tool.
If you get to try it for stripers, bring a 13 or 14 weight intermediate head. No one will outcast you!!
Per

 

[2HandTheSalt]

Of course, Per is right on with his assessment of the 1212. The current production model is really more of a full 12-weight. It is a tad on the heavy side for 12-weight heads, although I do find I can get it going pretty good but it does require a bit of oomph.

I have a second prototype with a more radical taper and a lighter tip which throws short 12-weight heads very nicely. It was my initial understanding that the final production model would be more like this one. Unfortunately after several fly shows where the A prototype was shown around, a good number of orders were placed for the rod. A decision was made that the rod couldn't logically be changed due to the existing orders and the excellent reception of the first rod at the shows. Of course, at the shows, the rod was being demonstrated with a much heavier sinking head and a thin running line, so everyone was getting giddy casting 150+ feet.

I have recently heard that the folks at, ( Insert name of big western US fly line manufacturer where British champion spey caster works,) also much preferred the 1212-B model, so maybe with a bit of conspiracy the production model might be changed.

If that happens, guys like my friend Per will come out of the woodwork saying, ' You screwed the rod up, now it won't handle the heavy lines the way it used to!'

For now, I would say that the DH1212-3 can be used with either 12 or 13-weight heads. The 12's require more casting effort, although you can work them confortably at 100'. I know some guys who are overhead casting sinking heads as heavy as 650 grains on them but those feel too heavy on it to me.

I also started using some shorter light line rods last year, the T & T 1208 and the Redington RedFly 12'6" which is an older Loop design ostensibly rated for 7/8 line. I find that both of those rods will work various shooting heads of 9, 10, or even 11-weight and they are a lot of fun in protected estuaries when the wind isn't blowing too hard and the flies aren't too big/heavy.

I think Juro has a lot of experience with the Sage 12'6" so maybe he will comment on that for you. In fact his Sage was the very first two-handed rod I ever cast one warm December day a few years ago on Race Point. One cast with it and I was hooked on two-handers. Thanks Juro!

 

[Per Stadigh]

Keep it alive!!

Jay,
Has anyone, like your buddy Lefty, tried the 12/12 for tarpon or even Blue Water species? (Trey also comes to mind with his old background of 2handed rods) To me this powerstick appears fit to take almost anything on......
You are right about me getting worried - I feel that the rod, as it is, has an important nische to fill. I know places on the Babine where you only get them on serious grainlines - with this babe at hand those runs would have been fun to fish. It is rare to feel that a 700 grainer behaves like an ordinary 9 weight....
Per

 

[2HandTheSalt]

DH 1212 Plot Thickens

Well, I had a long conversation with Tom Dorsey yesterday, and found out, ( Much to my surprise and delight,) that the current production model of the DH 1212-3 is actually the second, lighter version, not the heavier, early version. This means that basically everything I said about lining these rods in my previous post is dead wrong. Unless, of course you got an early production model.

I think that Per got an early one, hence his happiness with the heavy shooting heads.

When I was told that the lighter version would not be produced, I reluctantly put my prototype in the closet and have not fished it since, so I will have to dig it out and give it some time in the field before commenting on lining it. My initial impression of it was that it was really perfection with 12-weight heads, but we will see if my memory is good.

Good news for Per nonetheless: Tom wants to list BOTH models in next year's T & T catalog so that you will be able to get a light or heavy DH 1212-3. No decision yet on how the models will be differentiated in the catalog with regards to model numbers. Per, you should lobby hard for this, and especially with LD, because there is some internal resistance to continuing with both models!

Regarding Per's last question: Certain well-known individuals who have long-standing sponsorship relationships with other rod manufacturers have privately intimated to me that they really like the 1212. It is unlikely that they will actually fish the rod, nor make public statements about other manufacturer's offerings.

 

[parallelfish]

Jay,

Do you know at what point T&T changed the configuration of the 12x12?
I am curious as to which one I have (#12-478).

 

[2HandTheSalt]

parallelfish, there is no easy way to tell from the serial number which one you have.

This kind of sight production change happens to rods all the time without mention from the builder.

The thing about these rods is that when lining them up, you have to try some different heads until you find the one that feels best to you. There are no hard and fast rules here. I sometimes forget to make this clear when talking about the rods.

The difference between the two models is very small, one has a slightly lighter tip. Both will cast a variety of different heads. One requires a bit more caster input than the other, but that one is more powerful.