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chrome-magnon man
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Noticing a disturbing trend this fall. It seems that in the quest to get the best shot at fish, more and more fly anglers are electing to cut in below others and/or refuse to move through a run, sitting on a productive spot and casting away until a fish is hooked or they give up and leave. Am I just being old fashioned, or is this sort of behavior still considered bad form among steelhead and salmon anglers? And am I the only one noticing this sort of thing? I have to say that the very worst offenders on the rivers these days seem to be the fly anglers.
 

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I also have witnessed more and more of this in recent years. It is bad form and always will be. :mad: Sometimes a firm talking to will "educate" ignorant offenders. The problem is that more and more, they are not ignorant but rather just lowlifes that know better.
 

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I agree it's not ignorant newbies. it's people who are selfish and competitive.


dang it i just deleted a bunch of stuff i really wanted to say about such people but for the sake of keeping the peace it's gone...
 

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I agree with Rob as the core issue, behind that behavior. I had two experiences this year with Guides,one fly fishing, and one gear fishing, acting in such a way, as to say" move over I am trying to make a living here" A so called pro guide - teaching newbies in the sport , to be aggresive, and rude.Not only low hole, but move in ,and run out anyone in the desired piece of water. I usually avoid confrontation, but had to approach the Guides , in front of his dudes , and discredit him ,and his behavior. I looked directly at there clients,and told them if they really wanted to learn about the sport,they would be better off finding a more honorable teacher! I felt a little better, calling the kettle black. But it did ruin the serenety of the Morning :(
 

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JD
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Dana, you are not alone

Guides, especially gear guides seem to be either totally ignorant, or blind! I had a boat from a local "flyshop" with two gear clients not only come right in front of me, fishing my water, but then he drops the anchor and camps on the sweet spot for the better part of an hour. If this were not bad enough, two more boats from the same shop also followed him down and camped in that same run, at the same time! It'll be a cold day in H*** before I spend any money in that shop again.

In another case, this one involving a fellow member of the fly fishing club I belong to. A steelhead nymph type who camps on the sweet spot. (dont they all?) This guy does not like to fish above a Spey fisher. Claiming that with all that line whipping around, we drive the fish further out in the river. (where he cannot reach them) He will low hole a Spey fisher every time.

What ever happened to river ettiquette? The kind you used to read about. Where a guide instructed his clients to reel in their lines while they drifted through a run being fished by a wade fisher? Where you started at the top of a run, stepped your way down through, keeping a respectable distance between yourself and the fellow in front of you. And anyone who caught and landed a fish, relinquished his spot in the line and went back up to the top to start over.

I guess that line of thinking is about as old fashioned as Seal Dries. And sadly, about as common. :(
 

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JD
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casting lessons @ Casey Park

The guides must have been giving their clients casting lessons. They were soooo bad. Even with spinning rods and bobbers. :whoa:

JD Jones said:
And anyone who caught and landed a fish, relinquished his spot in the line and went back up to the top to start over..

Dana said:
JD,

yes, we were discussing that one last night as well. Seems to have disappeared too.
They would probably kick me out of the club and run me out of town were I to make such a suggestion. :lildevl:
 

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For what it is worth- the practise of turning a pool/spot over to your fishing partner/s after a fish is taken - is something we practise here- yep there is even honour and etiquette amongst catfish/carp/drum/walleye FF,ers:). For myself the enjoyment is in the company, the act of fishing and the banter. If i needed competition i,d take up arm wrestling:)

Will
 

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yes indeedy

lots if `issues' with ettiquet,,i told myself i would attemp to guide each separate run of fish with a clear mindset this year,,in other words=whatever `bait' lure,etc. each various run of fish `was hitting' that's what i would use, i refuse to bad mouth any angler because of a choice of weaponry,but an ass is an ass with or without a rod/boat,and i've witnessed plenty of unsportsmanlike conduct throughout the year,,i had more fun with two-handers and always seeking out sections that were relatively deserted put the icing on the cake,,i have seen a huge increase in visiting fly anglers this year,, :Eyecrazy: in fact,i refuse to say anything good about the rogue anymore,(as far as shouting out=come on down!),it's plenty inhabited enough for me,and i have been low-holed,by fly anglers,even when whipping an 18 around i've had them step right in below me from out of knowhere(where'd he come from!? :eek: :tsk_tsk:,the sad part is=i'd GLADLY fish behind them as i love to give people a shot at fish,i've fished it for so long i love to share,to attemp to help folks,or did! :cool: but the blatant and asinine way it's done is just too much ,i just walk away :( ,dunno,,maybe carrying belts of rifle rounds over each shoulder might be a sign to others,or some hand grenades:lildevl:
 

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Malcolm is right in Scotland they have the ethics printed right on the back of your permit!

Rob, I don't think being competitive has anything to do with it. Every successful individual I know is competitive, selfishness is completely different.

Ethics brings forth some interesting questions. I swing flies for Steelhead and believe that is the best way to target them. Joe, likes to nymph. Joe arrives at the run first and starts fishing (working his way up). I see him in the middle of the run and start at the head. Did I just cork Joe?
 

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This behavior has become a fact of life in the GL. I don't think anyone starts above anymore unless there's a group of us. If I see someone camped and not fishing through I will ask if I can work through below, but always ask. I see the same thing in the Mid-Atlantic with the spring Shad run starts. The only glory here is that you can't not catch fish; so the look on their faces when you "back up" through a pool and still hook fish is rather pleasing.

The big problem in the GL is the float fishermen will drift an entire run from above. Doesn't matter if you're working through or not, you're just increasing the size of their drift by working down. It's quite annoying, here comes the bobber and the inevitable "thhhhrpppp" as it gets drug back above. It's not only an etiquette issue but the fish just get hammered with that tackle. Between the getting lip hooked multiple times with a single cured egg and getting led around the river on 2lb test until they belly up it's a wonder any survive.

One mildly entertaining technique with those folks is to snake roll over the bobber. Two pound breaks pretty easy.

-Chris
 

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I agree with wrke

June 2005 on the Gaspe peninsula of Quebec was my first go at Atlantic salmon fishing. As wrke says, courtesy is the rule.

One event sticks in my memory. One morning we were first to park our car for Run "X" on the St. Jean, and while we were assembling rods, two anglers walked past us to the head of the pool. When we finished our dawdling and walked to the head of the pool, the two gents were waiting for us to step in first, because "you were here first." They were both Yanks, acting Canadien.
 

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Institutionalized Discourtesy

2005 was my first year fishing Alaska's Situk River, fishing both April and November.

In Anchorage the day before leaving for the destination I picked up a copy of "Fly Fish Alaska" from a local fly shop because of the cover headline "TEN RULES FOR SUCCESS ON THE SITUK."

I cannot forget two of the rules: one, get up early to get a good pool, and two, stay at that pool all day. Folks not only stay at one pool all day, they do not move six inches during the day. This is common and accepted practice. I'm through with that river.
 

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We on the west coast have alot to learn from the conduct on the Atlantic Salmon streams. In the mean time ,I will try to suggest to my fellow anglers that ,when you are the first person on the pool , Your chosen methode of covering the pool should be taken into account by new arriving anglers. It is the old" do unto others " attitude. What I mean is, if there is a bait fisherman or a nymph guy fishing the bucket,and not moving;I would respect there chosen methode, enough to ask to work the top of the run, until I run into them. If they are moving upstream, and they say they are working thier way there , I will respect that and go elswhere. Or I will ask if they mind if I fish the tailout , where they have already coverd. The point is even though I do not like bait , or nymph fishing, I would repect that they were there first. I would do whatever I could to meld my style to their game plan. I think Tackle manufa. ,fly shops ,fishing mags,and such should do more to promote more of this. Look at Red shed web sight. MJC is trying to educate newbies. There will always be so called sportsman, that do not act that way! :(
 

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Raise The Limits!
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Bad riverside manners know no method. I think as more people pick up the fly rod the #'s of bad/rude/uncaring/what ever you want to call them anglers that use that method, will only increase. Fishing the fly is turning from a passion to a status symbol to many anglers.
 

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Raise The Limits!
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The point is even though I do not like bait , or nymph fishing, I would repect that they were there first.

Exactly, its all about respecting our fellow anglers. Good point.
 

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"Every successful individual I know is competitive"
I guess that depoends on how you measure success..

frankly there is no such thing as success.. life nor any part of it is a competition.

there is however failure and someone who is competitive about their fishing has already failed.
 
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