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a/k/a loophitech
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone use these to dub? I've had one for about 2 months now and WOW does it make life easier. I used mostly yarn for the simple reason that I am really really really bad at it! (EDIT dubbing that is)

an improv tool has drastically helped me in making wings is a gamakatsu ss15 size 12 hook. i take the shaft of the hook and place it against the mallard and the distance between the hook point and the shaft is perfect (IMHO) for wings, sometime a bit big and that is easily corrected.

Does anyone have other tricks or techniques that help them tie spey/dee flies?

vinnie
 

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Pullin' Thread
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The only time I use my dubbing hook anymore is when tying an Alec Jackson style herl body. Alec ties his herl bodies by tying in the herl strands followed by a piece of oval tinsel (gold or silver depending on herl color). After this, he takes a pair of rubber pad hackle pliars (the king with the rubber pads on each jaw) and put both the herl and the ovel tinsel in the jaws; then he spins this with his dubbing hook until the herl sticks out and looks like chenile.

Instead of a dubbing hook or forming a dubbing loop, I use either the tying thread or floss in the manner Syd Glasso used. Simply split the thread or floss with a fine bodkin, hold the now split thread open, put some dugging wax on the split thread halves, put the dubbing in the split, and spin the bobbin. Walla! You have created a dubbing loop full of dubbing far quicker and easier with less bulk and hassle than if you made a dubbing loop, filled it with dubbing, and used a dubbing hook or other dubbing tool to spin it.
 

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tags and slim bodys and feather wings

here is how to get a slim body and a good tag
1) tye on floss and small oval tinsel at same time the length of the hook shank and wrap to eye

2) put the tinsel in the meterial clip to hold it out of the way and wrap a tight floss body all the way to the eye


3) time for the tag wrap a tag before wrapping forward to eye

one rule of thum is to start at the bend and work forward to the eye

feather wing i use a turkey feather from a white tip turkey feather. till i get good at tying full dressed flys. the trick to tying it in is the pinch wrap. were the thread is pulled from so the wing does not turn over or roll on you.how you do this is wile using a pinch wrap. you take two turns of thread between your index and thum. wile holding the wing tight and up right you pull strait up ("not down"). with out breaking the thread. this get them to set one on top of each other with out rolling over on you . thing is you have to be quick at doing the above or it will turn out like junk. another thing is the slection of meterials the tips of the turkey can not curve in or the fly does not come out as good.




and the rest is just lots of time. hope this helps you .




good luck and screaming drags btrout1013..... :smokin:
 

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a/k/a loophitech
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457 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Russ,

I saw Gerald Bartsch do something similar with splitting, only except it was floss to reduce bulk. i will have to try that then (your example), actually sounds easier and would definitely reduce the "bunched up" look i seem to get every now and again. i will give that whirl too. thanks buddy.

vinnie
 

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Pullin' Thread
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Vinnie,

I even use the split thread technique with 6/0 and 8/0 thread because it is quicker and easier than forming a dubbing loop, advancing the thread to the front of the fly, putting in the dubbing, twisting the dubbing loop, and then wrapping the dubbing loop. Far easier to simply split the tying thread (or floss), insert the dubbing, spin the bobbing, and wrap the body.

Using the split thread (or floss) technique has less bulk and forms a beautiful body.

Everyone,

Whether you use the split thread (or floss) technique, or use a traditional dubbing loop you can vary the thickness or slimness of the body very easily. If you want a very slim body, when you put the dubbing in the loop, simply twist the dubbing onto one of the threads (or sides of the split thread if using split thread technique) before twisting the loop (or spinning the bobbin in split thread technique). The result will be a very tight and slim dubbed body. If you want a fuller body, put the dubbing in the loop running parallel with the thread and then spin the dubbing loop (or bobbin). For a very full body, put the dubbing at right angles to the thread and then spin the dubbing loop (or bobbin).

Glasso used to put an underbody of flat silver tinsel on his bright bodied speys (like the Orange Heron and Sol Duc Spey). This tinsel underbody keeps the floss from loosing its brilliance when wet. After he made the rear 1/2 of his body with a double layer of flourescent floss, the split the floss, put the first 1/3 of the dubbing in the resulting loop and twisted it to one side of the floss strand before twisting the dubbing loop tight(remember this makes a very slim body). By doing this, Glasso was able to make the transition from floss to dubbing very smooth without having a bump. He put the dubbing for the rest of the dubbed front body half in the dubbing loop parallel to the split floss and twisted it.

How do I know this some may ask, simple, I had Dick Wentworth and Don Kaas show me. Dick was taught how to tie flies by Glasso when Glasso was his school principal and was his fishing buddy for many years. Don was taught how to tie spey flies by Syd when in his early 30's.
 

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a/k/a loophitech
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457 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Russ,

It is a shame I am so far away as I would like very much to spend an afternoon and get some schooling by the man!

Vinnie
 

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a/k/a loophitech
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457 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i'll stick to my dubbing hook and bypass the splitting of thread, 6/0 adn 8/0, not even on my calmest of days!!!!. hats off to you brother!

vinnie
 

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Flytyer,

What thread brand do like best for split'n. I like tie salmon/steelhead flies with Danville flymaster which spins flat so imagine it would work just fine. I use this tech. with floss but have not tried it with the tying thread yet. Sounds like a great idea.

Vinnie,

God bless the D (which I am pretty sure stands for D loop).

Greg
 

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Pullin' Thread
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Greg,

I use either Danville Flymaster 7/0 or Uni-Thread 8/0 for tying thread on 95% of my flies. I usually use a thread color that is close or the same as the dubbing I'm using. However, there are times when a contrasting thread color makes for nice bit of subtle color contrast. The only time I don't use the flymaster or 8/0 uni-thread is when tying Woolley Buggers (I then use 30 Danville or uni-thread), spinning deer body hair (I use Danville Flat Waxed Nylon for this), or bunny flies (I use flat waxed nylon on these too). The thread sold by Wapsi or Gudebrod should work well too. Almost forgot, Benecchii thread in 8/0 and 10/0 is good for this technique too.

For floss I use Uni-Stretch (wonderful stuff that allows you to use it as a tying thread to bind down materials like tinsel and spey hackle as you as making the body to keep bulk down), Alec Jackson's Japanese Silk (I think it is the finest silk floss you can buy), Uni-Floss (I use this on purple and black Ally's Shimps because it can be used in a bobbin), and rarely Danville's Flourescent Nylon floss (I only use this in flame because it is not available in Uni-Stretch).

GPearson said:
Flytyer,

What thread brand do like best for split'n. I like tie salmon/steelhead flies with Danville flymaster which spins flat so imagine it would work just fine. I use this tech. with floss but have not tried it with the tying thread yet. Sounds like a great idea.

Vinnie,

God bless the D (which I am pretty sure stands for D loop).

Greg
 

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Pullin' Thread
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4,694 Posts
Vinnie,

Yeah right, we live so far from each other we can never hope to get together for an afternoon. Drop me a pm if you want to get together for some time on the vise with me.

o_clarki_clarki said:
Russ,

It is a shame I am so far away as I would like very much to spend an afternoon and get some schooling by the man!

Vinnie
 
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