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Discussion Starter #1
Hi there again,

What is the big difference between the basic double taper lines and the new spey lines that seem all the range on your side of the pond.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of the new lines over the old oness.

These new lines seem to be pretty new over in the UK and there is a dearth of information on them over here.:eyecrazy:
 

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My spey experience is 98% with one or the other of these line types. I have the impression that having a long belly with a larger/heavier rear portion adds some momentum to the forward cast, consequently lengthens my maximum casting distance slightly (5-10 feet); a real expert could probably benefit proportionately more. For most of us, it's not worth disgarding a good double-taper, unless you just have to have the latest thing.
A problem with U.S.-made DTs is that the tapered portion is too short (6-9') for a smooth turnover. That's not a problem if you're going to remove one tapered end and add a loop for tips. I have one British (?) DT11F, 87 feet long, that has 17-foot tapers that turn over nicely. I wish I knew its brand.
Standard DTs work fine on many streams. Here's a $-saving trick: I spliced about twenty feet of running line to one end of a bargain 90-foot Orvis DT11F, creating an inxpensive line that's longer than I can cast, and that doesn't waste reel-room.
 

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Double Taper vs. new spey lines

• The difference between DT and "the new stuff" is the difference between a DT and a WF [weight forward] line. You undoubtedly know the difference with a single hand rod; the same applies to double hand rods.

• With floating lines, there is no important difference beyond the need to strip in line with the WF, if one is casting beyond the length of the WF head. With a WindCutter that distance is 82 feet for a floating line. Translation: With casts up to 82 feet there is no fishing difference between the two lines. Casts over 82 feet require stripping in the excess over 82 feet. [Calculation: 54' WindCutter body + 14' leader + 14' rod = 82 feet.]

• When one goes to sinking lines the difference shows up. A full sinking DT line increases cycle time per cast because of the time required to bring the line to the surface preparatory to casting. Again, look at the success story of the Teeny WF 24 foot sink tips which are so popular and which spawned many imitators.

• Because most sink tips are fished with short leaders, say 4', the distance is 72' when comparing distance above which stripping in is required.

• Comparing fishing a full sinking line with a spey rod vs. "the new stuff" with 15' and 24' tips, the new stuff wins hands down.

• Perhaps the difference in line choice between DT and WF is affected by UK use of extremely heavy flies with heavy brass tubes around the shanks of hooks, which get the fly to the desired depth when using a floating line. Such flies are seldom used in the US.
 

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Re: Double Taper vs. new spey lines

Bob Pauli said:
•.

• Perhaps the difference in line choice between DT and WF is affected by UK use of extremely heavy flies with heavy brass tubes around the shanks of hooks, which get the fly to the desired depth when using a floating line. Such flies are seldom used in the US.
Bob this is not common practice in the UK either. The new quad tip lines are becoming more popular but plenty of people are still using full sinkers or intermediates. I find rolling a line to the surface prior to casting takes little time though a touch tiring. A light fly on a fast sinking line swims much nicer than a heavy fly on a floating line. It also casts so much nicer I hate casting big heavy flies.

Malcolm
 

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Malcolm-
Thank you for the information. Two questions: first, are the heavy flies I described used anywhere these days? Second, what is the sink rate of the fastest sinking full line used?

Bob
 

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Heavily Weighted Flies

Bob,

I would consider any fly heavier than 30 grains to fall under that category. Yes, I do fish them quite a bit on a floating line. Once the timing is found, they are not all that hard to throw.

Instead of using the old Partridge 5/0 irons, I am now using big waddington shanks with tube fly hooks on a floating line. The total weight is between 22 and 24 grains- and these are a piece of cake to throw. Even on DT lines!

Mac- I did the same thing with the 90' DT's to allow some shooting of the line if needed. I hated the backing knot going through the guides (unless it is fish induced, of course!!!).

William
 

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I learned how to spey cast with a double taper line, and I will not go back to one since the new long belly spey lines (GrandSpey, XLT, and Airflow long traditional) are far nicer lines. They cast with more dynamic power, turn over better, mend as well as a double taper, can be shot an extra 30 or 40 feet it you really need to get out to the 130 ft or longer area, and will cast a sinking tip of up to 7 inch per second sink rate with ease.

In short, as Nooksack Mac pointed out, up to 100 to 110 feet, they require not stripping and mend as well as a double taper with the added advantage of better turnover of big or wind resistant flies. After 100 to 110 feet, they are like a WF line and will just plain shoot out to over 130 feet easily.

The difference bewteen the new long belly lines (belly of 90 to 100 feet) and the double tapers is about the same as the difference between a level and a WF line on a single-hand rod.

I use the GrandSpey exclusively on rods of 15 foot or longer.
 

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Sinking Lines,

Bob,
I too use the waddintons but I am unsure of the weights but a lot less than copper tubes.

The full sinker is a type 6 6.5-8 inches / second. but only in deep water when in spate usually a slow sinker upn to 2 "/ second.


Flytyer, I tried the Grand Spey at the weekend, I cannot get the whole of the belly out even with a 17'6" B&W. One of the Spey gillies gave it a go and he struggled as well. Are you getting the light brown line shooting ? if so how? We found that the loop was just too big and started to collapse dropping the fly in the water, bear in mind we were fishing not casting so had a 17ft sunk tip on the end.

Malcolm
 

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Willie Gunn,

I've been fishing the 10/11 GrandSpey on my 16 ft 11 weight T&T with 15 foot sink tips from sink rates of 3 to 8 inches/second since the beginning of November for chum salmon first and then for winter steelhead since the first of December. To answer you r question, yes, I have had the brown running line out most days when fishing locally on the Skagit here in Washington state. I have been fishing between 80 and 135 feet each day I've been out this winter, and I have been fishing with #1 1/2 and #3 Glasso Spey flies, #1 1/2 and #3 G.P.'s, # 1/0, 2, and 3 Ally's Shrimps, # 1 1/2 Purple Emperor, Floodtide, Kate, or Quilled Eagle full dressed feather wings, and Avon Eagle and double white-winged Akroyds tied on Alec Jackson Spey blind eye hooks.

I have had no trouble casting all of the 100 foot belly and then shooting another 20 to 30 feet of brown running line with either the single or double spey with the above tips. One thing I have found is very helpful to casting this much line is to start your forward spey slightly before the "D" loop has finished forming. In effect, what you are doing is using the air resistance as a sort of pully to help keep the rod moving and the line under constant tension until the final forward acceleration and stop to unload the line for the forward spey. It is truly amazing how well the GrandSpey casts if you do this.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for all the reply's it seems that I am not doing too bad, I can cast out almost a full DT line and fish it araound pretty well.

I think that the use of feet in the measurements threw me, 100ft is "only" 30 yards after all:smokin:

It would be great if Simon was able to let me and a couple of mates test the mid spey and grand spey lines this season.

I am heading uo to the tweed next weekend and will look about for a tester.

The Tweed boatmen all swear by heavy tube in the spring/autumn, does the use of floating line with a tip and a light fly improve the results.

It is difficult to go against the advice as the fish can be few and far between.
 

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Sagefly.
Look in your PM box, I may be able to lend you a couple of Grand Speys to try.

Malcolm
 

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Sagefly, get a copy of March's Trout & Salmon, which has an article by Crawford Little giving some good general information about speycasting lines, the concept behind them & what they have to offer over DT lines. Incidentally, there's a comparative review of specialist speycasting lines promised in next month's magazine, too.
 

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Bob,
Emap magazines are too mean to put there magazine on the web, you have to join the rest of us reading them in W H Smith the newsagents. Compared with the US magazines it is pretty poor stuff.

Malcolm
 

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It sounds as if it will cost me money to scan the article in. Give me a couple of days
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Magazine article

Bob,

If you send me your address to me by email I will copy the articles and post them on to you.
 
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