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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Will changing the grain weight of the line by 20-30 grains really be noticeable when Scandi Casting? Trying to decide if I should drop one increment or two (60 grns).

Thanks
 

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bow river ninja
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definetly!! could be the difference in a litte extra distance or less tailing loops. do you feel your tip is just a little too mushy?? or gets over powered when you try for that little extra distance?
 

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FISHIN' FREELANCER
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30 actual grains can make a difference. Going by box label weight is ball park but can vary. Heavier the heads, the more potential variance.
 

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It most defiantly can make a difference! I would also recommend to weigh it out on a scale before you purchase it, I've seen heads vary 15 gr. +/-
 

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sushiyummy & C&R
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It depends on the window of your casting speed and where the frequency of the rig is in relationship to it.

If there is enough eclipsing (a 'wow' feel), it won't make as much difference than if there is poor eclipsing (a 'so-so' to 'I can't get it to go' feel).

I took several rods and performed frequency testing to show differences. The customer was mesmerized by this objective testing and wants to bring his favorite rod into the store for reference the next time he is in the hunt for a new rod.
 

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All Tangled Up
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Obviously how much of difference it makes depends on the weight of your head, 250 vs 280 is a different step than 950 vs 980. In mid-weight rods, say 6-8 weight, I would expect most intermediate casters would perceive a noticeable difference in two short heads of same design, same length, 30 gr weight difference.

In my opinion, for those same rods, unless it is at an extreme end of the grain window, 30 gr either way should not affect the fish-a-bility of most rods. And I am skeptical that, if one really did an objective collection of data, the end-performance would be affected much, given a caster with sufficient skill to adapt the stroke enough to maximize the performance. But I do believe there would be a reasonably large effect on the subjective perception of rod feel, and that in turn can have a fairly big effect on the end result.

50 gr increments, differences start to be glaring and probably objectively measurable. 20 gr and under, hard to tell the differences. Again in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks everyone. As I am sure you probably guessed, I am fairly new to all this. The rod is an older Sage 5120 IIIe that I have been playing with. Seems a little sluggish with a 360 Scandi that a friend recommended for this rod, so I was debating between a 330 and a 300 to try next. I guess I'll go for the 330 and see what happens.
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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In scandi, 30 gr means the difference between a delight and a dog for 7-8 weights... even when the head weight is over 600gr (10/11 beastie scandi), it feels different to me.

Good on ya for noticing. Don't forget to factor in the polys. Some heads only like mono on a given rod, some perform better with polys, even for floating work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Don't forget to factor in the polys. Some heads only like mono on a given rod, some perform better with polys, even for floating work.
Thanks - I will do some more casting with it on the water and see how the Polyleaders affect the feel.
 

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registered text offender
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30 grains is huge ! especially on a lighter rod. i remember liking that rod w/ a 310 scandi / 350 skagit. get a scale. labels cant be trusted !
 

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Thanks everyone. As I am sure you probably guessed, I am fairly new to all this. The rod is an older Sage 5120 IIIe that I have been playing with. Seems a little sluggish with a 360 Scandi that a friend recommended for this rod, so I was debating between a 330 and a 300 to try next. I guess I'll go for the 330 and see what happens.
I have fished that rod for years,,, very nice smooth casting design.
It was the first 5wt Trout Spey rod introduced to the market,, suffered in the early years due to lack of appropriate line availability,, today we have many great choices.

My favorite line 300gr RIO Scandi with leader about 14-16ft long.

Skagit is 350gr RIO Skagit Flight or 375gr RIO Skagit Short.

Regards,
FK
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have fished that rod for years,,, very nice smooth casting design.
It was the first 5wt Trout Spey rod introduced to the market,, suffered in the early years due to lack of appropriate line availability,, today we have many great choices.

My favorite line 300gr RIO Scandi with leader about 14-16ft long.

Skagit is 350gr RIO Skagit Flight or 375gr RIO Skagit Short.

Regards,
FK
For your leader, are you using a Poly or just tapered mono?
 

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For your leader, are you using a Poly or just tapered mono?
Tapered mono,,,, maxima hand tied leaders work great.

Poly leaders add too much weight to the front end of Scandi lines for efficient casting IMHO. I only use Poly leaders on Airflo Rage and Wulff Ambush lines, they smooth out the presentation.

Regards,
FK
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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When I find that one of my heads on a given rod should work, but might not feel delicious, I do a few things:

I try a long leader, like a 15ft Airflow tapered with some extra tippet suitable for the fly size and rod length.

Then I try a Int poly in 10-14' sizes, because different head/rod combos are actually a bit picky about poly length for reasons of anchor, because with scandi it's all about the kiss.

Then I start playing with different weights and sink rates of polys and combinations of weighted flies, ending up with 7.0 ips and a 4" leadeye bunny usually. Amazing what the right head will carry with authority!

If the tip diameter of the head allows it, I might give some T- material or a cut back density compensated sinktip a whirl. You'd be amazed what you can huck with even a light scandi head if your form is right and you get loading and decent line speed, and of course tip diameter of the head matters. I find more aggressive heads like PowerTapers will haul a load of hay and then some.

What happens is you find the keyhole, a narrow range of grains that optimize the performance of the rod to give good line speed, a wind-cutting loop, and the ability to carry surprising stuff. I have one rod which has a keyhole of 490-520 gr, head/poly combined weight. It blisters, man, even with a substantial Intruder on it.

This is the polar opposite of Skagit brain. Scandi brain sees power as line speed, Skagit brain sees power as mass. It's counterintuitive to use a lighter head with a heavier poly, but there it is. Once you nail this principle down, you'll start shopping for a puukko to clean fish with!:D
 

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Leader formula

Try the old standby, 60-20-20 for butt-graduation-tippet.
15 ft. for easier calculation, butt is 9', grad. is 3', tippet 3'.
Using Maxima Chameleon, I'd go 5' of 25 lb. and 4' of 20 for the butt, 18" of 15 and 18" of 12 for the grad., then 3' of 10 for a tippet, ultragreen if you wish.
That should work well for flies from size 10-4, unweighted.
For a 7 weight or heavier I'd start the butt with 30 lb.

Cheers,
Chris

P.S. Cool post by The Spaz while I was hunt an' peckin' here. That idea about using a 15' knotless taper plus a tippet is what I personally use most.
 

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Kinetic energy of an object is proportional to the square of the object speed.

Lighting a bit on the mass of the head to get more line speed form the line always pays off.
 

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Kinetic energy of an object is proportional to the square of the object speed.

Lighting a bit on the mass of the head to get more line speed from the line always pays off.
Agree 100%, I always go as light in weight as possible for comfortable rod loading. This is especially evident with Scandi lines.

Regards,
FK
 

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same for skagit?

Not trying to jack a thread here, but I was wondering the same thing for skagit... I was casting a head close to the middle of the rods grain window and I felt like I wasn't loading the rod deep enough into the blank for my preference. Being new to skagit casting I was wondering if stepping up 30 grains to the upper end up of the grain window would benefit me more for deeper loading into the butt section? or is it a minimal amount and most likely my lack of casting skills?
 
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