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Mr. Mom
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625 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I had always used single hand casting physics applied to the two hander. As a saltwater single hand guy I always relied on making sure my tip travelled the longest distance possible, and at the end of the stroke I would pop the rod and haul with the line hand. I did the same thing with my spey casting. Top hand would extend the tip through a long stroke, bottom hand would pop the rod at the end of that stroke. Been doing it that way since '97

Well I was trying to apply the same principle while testing lines on the grass at River Run Anglers, and someone shows me a completely different stroke. In essence it appeared to me to be the exact opposite of my original self taught stroke. A quick sharp pop of the rod (we're talking with a long extended belly here) with both hands (top out, bottom back), and then extend out with the top hand. I hope my description makes sense.

I went out to the water and this cast has changed everything. I'm not sure I've ever really loaded a spey rod butt before. I was single spey casting an entire 8/9 grandspey belly (no shooting) on my Derek Brown 8/9 and not only did I have a tight V loop with no slack when I hit it right, but the fly left the water with an audible "thhhhhhhwip" and a long leader snapped taught at the end of the cast.

So I guess my question is, What's up with that?!?! Which family of strokes do you all use? Tip casting or Butt casting for lack of better terms?
 

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#&%*@^# Caster
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3,058 Posts
Used to tip cast but I have recently made the same discovery as you. I was never loading the rod correctly and now when I do it correctly...wow.

-sean
 

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Not sure I follow your description. Seems with a long belly line you need long motions to move all the line but as in single handed casting the tirck is to stop the rod at the end - this is done by snapping the bottom hand in and pushing with the top hand - kinda rotating around a fixed point. If you just push with the top hand you will not load the rod or stop it easily. But at the begnning of the forward cast your upper hand is opposite your ear - you then accelerate forward with the upper hand and complete the snap at the end.
 

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Mr. Mom
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625 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Rick J said:
Seems with a long belly line you need long motions to move all the line ... But at the begnning of the forward cast your upper hand is opposite your ear - you then accelerate forward with the upper hand and complete the snap at the end.
That's how I used to do it. This stroke I'm playing with is more like planting an ice ax into a wall. Top hand starts at the ear but only comes forward about 18 inches to hard stop. Bottom hand pulling as hard as the top hand pushes. This is followed by a controlled drift forward after the fact, but all the power is in that first punch. I couldn't believe the way the long belly line would fly out there just with the punch, even if I left off the drift.

I'm in no way claiming this is THE stroke. Just that it was a revelation to me because it worked so much better than anything I've tried and it is so counter-intuitive to me.
 

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By applying the stop sooner you will certainly stop the rod tip higher. I have always done this with a single handed rod - a short foreward stoke to a stop followed by a drift.

If you move only 18 inches and snap the rod the tip will be significantly higher than if you extend your upper hand all the way forward prior to the snap
 

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Pullin' Thread
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4,694 Posts
Philster,

I have been casting like that (with short-, mi-, and long-belly lines) since I bought Hugh Falkus book on spey casting. This is the casting style that he advocated as being the one with the most power being applied to the rod. He was right, as you found out, the load on the rod this creates is incredible, and the economy of motion is a nice side benefit. This is due to both hands and both arms being used to move the rod, and the faster the motions are done with the same abrupt stop, the more load and power in the cast.

In fact, I have to remind myself to use less power with the hand snaps with shorter casts or I badly overpower them.

Rick J,

The extra arm motion used with the long-belly lines happens as you move the line into the "D" Loop, the forward casting stroke is really not different.
 

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loading the rod

Philster

I am quite familiar with the rod you are using, as it is one of my favorite and the 8/9 grand is a good line for it. I use to use a lot of top hand until I got a little tip from Aaron. When I started keeping the right arm at a true 90 degree angle and keeping the hands high with the long lines it forced me to use the bottom hand more. This will also tighten up your loops and make casting these extended belly lines easier on you. I found that with longer rods like the cnd salar and the thompson specialist it is critical I do this or the rod will flat kill me. Look at pictures and video of some of the great casters with the long line and notice where the hands are and look for the 90 degree angle from shoulder to forearm. Was casting the 8/9 winston with the 9/10 long delta yesterday on the pond and was amazed at the line speed achieved using this technique. Also try the 7/8 grandspey on this rod its a pretty good dry line though a bit short but is a good tip line as well.

Brian
 
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