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cast,mend,stumble,swear..
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Discussion Starter #1
Am relatively new to the spey game, having picked up the big stick just this past summer. Have had a day of formal instructions with John and Amy Hazel, of Deschutes Angler fame, this past summer. Helped immmensly. am good at circle casts, both sides of the river (river right is an offhand cast :tsk_tsk: i know, i know, develope that other handl..:rolleyes: ). single speys are ok, double spey needs some work. snake roll depends upon the day. Am casting a 2001/02 Sage 9140 traditional (green blank) with a windcutter 8/9/10 with tips. mind you my casting has been exclusively with the floating mid section and floating tip. This past weekend, fishing the deschutes, started playing with the sink tip compensator and the type three and intermediate sink tips. results were not so good.... finally figured out the need to "roll cast" the sunk tip to the surface off of the dangle... but beyond that....

Am feeling pretty clueless about how to use the tips (with the floating mid section or sink tip compensator?), "skagit style" with out either, etc. and also, what spey strokes are best. saw someone mention the perry poke, saw that at the sandy spey clave, and can do that one pretty well from river left. but river right..... :whoa:

can any one help me with some pointers on how a newbie approaches sink tips? am going back to the deschutes this weekend, and want to practice, and maybe get lucky with a fish... :p

Really appreciate the help!!!
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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For river right skagit casting I came up with a cast that combines the snake roll with the perry poke, the "snake poke".

Basically you start with a subdued snake roll and instead of staying up in the firing position bring the rod butt to the left hip and poke the line into the 'fold'. Then come up to load the rod and off it goes.

I've submitted the cast to the Skagit cast powers that be for approval, waiting to hear back. ;)
 

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Modified Perry for river right

Ed Ward does a very neat modified Perry Poke for river right. He begins as you would for a double. After the line lands he gracefully dumps the line by lowering the rod but off the left hip, then a nice powerful sweep into a D-loop and a fire off the right shoulder.

Juro is doing something similar, but with a different start, a spiral rather than a set up for a double.
 

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If you are still just beginning and do not have casts down very well you might consider taking out the middle section and just using the 15' tip on the belly section - this much shorter line is very easy to control and cast. If you are ok at off hand casts then for river right I would recommend a reverse snap T which pretty readily will bring the tip out of the water.
 

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A point I failed to mention - when using tips especially with the compensator you really need to slow the lift and be very smooth in the application of power. I had problems with tips for a long time until I saw this at one of the spey claves and again had someone drill it home. On the lift - lift high and slowly to bring as much of the line out as possible keeping everything in tension then do a smooth (not too violent) snap T. The problem with sudden or violent motions is you often create slack in the line and any slack will cause the tip to sink again. A smooth progressive lift will keep everything under tension and bring the tip right to the surface with no need to first roll cast it to the surface.
 

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cast,mend,stumble,swear..
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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks!!!!

Thanks much for the advise!! i will try the perry poke variation rec's this weekend. Rick J. - thanks for the reminder on slow and smooth... still fighting the urge to over power the big stick, have to keep reminding myself to SSSLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWWWWW down.... thanks again!!!
feiger
 

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Feiger

As you edge into the world of sink tips, it is my opinion that initially you should do exactly what you were taught, changing nothing in your casting. Put the floating tip 2 on in place of the compensator, and forget the compensator for a year, or more.

Start working on casting the 15-foot sinking tips 1, starting with the slowest sink rate , moving to fastest [type 8] as your timing gets in sync with the characteristics of a sinking tip as anchor. A floating line anchor is more forgiving than a sinking line, as you have noticed.

With a 9-weight 14-foot rod executing a circle cast or snap-T with a WindCutter line, there is no requirement to roll a sinking tip 1 to the surface. The circle or snap motion will bring any 15-foot tip one to the surface.

Welcome to the world of spey. It is challenging and rewarding.
 

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cast,mend,stumble,swear..
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194 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks to all who commented!!

Hey! just a quick note to all of you above who commented. i greatly appreciate your help and very useful input. all helped this weekend. wish i could say a fish added to the success, but that'd be lieing. however, the casting with the sink tips was a hell of a lot better than previous. was actually able to fish the tips and cover real water, not just shake my head in frustration...
Juro and t-
experimented with the pokes. new casting stroke, had to think about it to much, thus not as successful. every now and then, tho, it did click. some more practice, and i'll be ready for the skagit/skeena/stilly/sky/what ever's fishing come february/april!
Rick J
Thanks much for reminding me to SLLLOOOOOWWWWW down. that probably helped the most... was able to throw both the #3 and #6 tips. and even fish them! thanks again...
Bob
went with the floating #2 tip, made a huge difference. will mothball the compensator for a while...
and i found out the circle is much better for me than the snap t. at 6'4" and 240 lbs, i think i put a little to much "snap" in the snap t---cost me one of the flies i've been posting on the classic salmon and steelhead post site..... :whoa:
Thanks again!!!
 

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Hint from Simon G

if you can lift half the sinking tip out of the water, you can go right into your cast without doing and rolling to get the tip up. As Rick J mentioned, this is best done - slowly, then accelerate into the cast.
 

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cast,mend,stumble,swear..
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Discussion Starter #10
thanks - discovered that this weekend using the #2 floating tip. with the sink tip compensator, i was struggling and could not immediately go into the spey cast motion because of the sunken line, stiction, and not getting enough of the sinking portion out of the water with the up sweep of the rod. hence, the need to roll cast it to the surface. however, with the floating #2 tip, no problems at all... also now appreciate the differences between the 8/9/10 and the 9/10/11 windcutters and how they perform. Amy and John Hazel, at a spey clinic i attended this summer, said the tips of the 8/9/10 would load the rod i shoot with (sage 9140-4) much better and would be less finicky than with the full floating 8/9/10. they to (as simon does) rocommends the 9/10/11 windcutter floating for that rod. kinda nice to be able to bomb out 90-100'! more than enough to cover the deschutes water i fish!
 

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Pullin' Thread
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Feiger,

Sounds like you are off to a great start with the 2-handers. You must keep in mind with the Sage 9140-4 that it is a slow rod and needs to have a gentle hand, as you have been finding out and reminding yourself to slow down. You and I are virtually the same size and anytime I cast a slow to medium 2-hander I have to remind myself to slow down and not overpower the rod. Maybe that is why I like the fast and oonger 2-handers best.
 
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